It would be best to wait until they bore the block for the pistons, then have them mock up 4 rods and pistons and do a test fit in the four corner cylinders. With them in place, then they can check the distance from the piston tops to the decks and determine how much (if any) is needed to be milled to get to a zero deck or just the get the decks square.
I'd scrap the asthmatic stock heads and go with something modern(alum for my 5.0) with less cam to make it more street friendly and probably make more HP...
I just dont have the funds right now for performance heads. Later on, i was planning on trying the GT40 heads but as for now theres not much extra money to go out and spend. And as for the camshaft i have, do you think I'm going to need new valve springs to run it?
As long as you are going to completely rebuild the motor I'd have the rods sized on the big and little end and have ARP rod bolts put in...............just to make sure when you put your foot into it a rod or two doesn't leave the crank and find its way outside the block............................just some cheap insurance IMHO.
ARP bolts are a good idea, and I've swapped the stock bolts for them without resizing the rods in an assembled short block. But this is something best left for someone experienced in such things to do.
I certainly don't mean to be critical here, but if you are going to spend good money to have the motor rebuilt you should make sure that everything is rebuilt and to spec's. Boring means using a block plate that attaches to the block inplace of the head when they bore, turning the crank certainly means they need to check the line bore to make sure it is Ok, if not then they need to line hone it, deck height is important and having the rods resized is another important part. Depending on what/who's pistons you use I'd go with Moly rings....they are more expensive than Cast but make breaking in the motor much easier and less chance of not seating............................IMHO As was mentioned earlier, you really need to have screw in studs put into the heads and use the springs/retainers/keepers from the cam manufacture. If you don't put in screw in studs at least pin the factory pressed in studs. To have stronger than stock springs pull out a stock pressed in rocker stud...... could do some damage or at least leave you beside the road somewhere. I have taken many stock heads apart and looked at the stock springs, retainers, and keepers only to find the springs were weaker than the manufacturer of the cam advised along with retainers and keepers being galled.............just another accident waiting to happen. You could always shim the springs but then you run the chance of "coil bind" which could really ruin your day...........and the motor.
Find your piston choice (flat tops usually have a "dome" cc of -6 to -12), head CC (lots of places on the net list cumbustion chamber cc for any head number) and head gasket thickness (usually in the .039 to .058 depending on gasket used). Then play here http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/compression_calculator.html The short stroke of a 302 doesn't build compression very fast. SPark
Okay, so then heres whats going down so far when i went to the machine shop earlier today. The engine is going to be bored .040 over after all and the heads shaved .010. From there I'm getting forged pistons and rings coming in sometimes next week that the shop ordered in for me that will have a pin height of 1.619 i believe. (At least that's what i asked for) And then im going to have the engine decked to the deck height will be 0. The crankshaft is going to be turned and im going to get new bearings for them obviously. I'm just waiting for the final size. I'm talking to them about doing the connecting rods, I have a new cam shaft with lifters that should increase the overall torque on the engine (Specs below) Plus adding what I've already done to the engine a while back (Weiand Intake a Holley 4V Carb) that should give me a little more of a get-up-and-go engine. So far that's as much as i planned. I'm still working on more, but if I am to get new valve springs, what weight do i start to look for? It doesnt give any recommended specifications. I've been reading where people have done fine with stock springs with bigger cams but what do you guys think? I don't have the biggest budget to work with, so im trying to do the best with that ive got. P.S. I used that little calculator and it says that I'll have a compression ratio anywhere between about 9.4-10.7 ish.
Your cam will work with stock springs, but as they'll likely be pretty weak, that will limit your rpm capability. You'll hit valve float before the cam is done. The lift specs are not a problem as far as spring bind goes.
Oh okay. Should I get new stock springs then? If so, do I need a professional to replace them or is it possible to do it myself? I've never had to replace valve springs before.
Assuming you are at least going to have a valve job I'd think the machine shop would be more than happy to install the new springs... Just remember, if you go with stiff springs there's a good chance of pulling the studs if not pinned... Before you spend a dime on those old stickers, at least try to find a set of late E7TE(mostly on Mustang and truck) that already have hardened seats and use bolt down rockers... Around here on Craigslist they are usually $50 a set(would need freshening)...
For the valve springs you need to contact the cam manufacturer and ask for the installed height along with open and closed spring pressure. The one issue with stock springs is that they have been worn out so to speak and have lost some of the spring pressure. Yes, you can shim them up to get the required installed height and bring back some of the closed/open pressure, but this can also cause coil bind.................. One thing to keep in mind is that your motor is nothing other than an "Air Pump", and more fuel/air you take in the more you need to get out. I know you are on a limited budget so try and do as much as you can to the bottom end......block, crank, pistons, and rods to make sure you have a good foundation for any improvements down the line. Now, with that said make sure the heads are up to the task of the cam, (the cam is the brain of the motor).................by that I mean putting in screw-in studs or at a bare minimum of pinning the factory pressed in studs, because you don't want to be pulling them out of the head with new springs that have more open/closed pressure than the old ones. It's been a longtime since I've worked on stock SBF heads and I don't remember if you have to mill the stud stand or not, I know on 351w heads to put in screw in studs you do...............just not sure about 289/302. I don't know if this helped or not......................and this is just my own opinion after building many engines for both race and street.
No offense intended whatsoever and only trying to help.. but IMHO, you're well on your way to making some pretty big mistakes here and you should really be talking to your engine builder to keep you away from another teardown in the near future. Mistakes at this level of power/rpm are usually far more costly. Are there people out there who run too large a cam with stock springs?.. well sure there are since "cheap horsepower" mindsets have been around nearly as long as motors have existed. However, with our current level of parts availability these days.. the time for trial and error is far behind us now and there's absolutely no need to go out on that limb. And do others always bend valves(maybe not from the lift/timing spec's causing PTV contact on those small valves.. but from the PTV contact when those weak-ass springs surge/float on you.. and they WILL at the very least surge when you over-rev it the first time or two)..or break springs(from coil bind or running too damned close to it for too long)? No.. not always.. but chances are higher that they aren't running right close to .600 lift(with 1.7 rockers) and trying to reach a zero deck either(taller pistons/thinner gasket). Also remember that the ones who do get away with running stock springs(I would put small money on it not being physically possible though) are using 1.6 rockers and running positive type seals(used on all newer factory heads) that allow greater clearance over the old umbrella seals those heads use(which use taller guides) and they will need to be machined for positive seals to even allow you to run those stock springs anyways. Aside from being mandatory for these types of lifts.. positive style seals are a MUST.. if you don't want the typical oil consumption issues associated with these old Fords. Which makes the use of those old heads even less "budget" when you add all the necessary upgrades up. Also consider that the cam you are choosing here is FAR from a "torque cam" and actually bleeds cylinder pressure off at idle/lower rpm. The power range rec's listed with the spec's are there for a reason. A MINIMUM of 9.5 compression is needed to really make it shine with closer to 10-1 or above being much better. And be ready for a pig off the line(probably more like a baby pig due to the weight of these cars) with anything short of 3.55's.. and even then.. this cam is surely going to prefer running with 3.7+ ratios on an undergeared slushbox that has a meager 2.43 first gear. A higher stall can help but just keep in mind that they are usually rated for torqier 350ci motors and will therefore fall short of advertised stall speed on such a little motor. Adding a bigger cam on a light car only compounds the issue to give you less stall speed than you desire from an off shelf converter. Only a custom converter designed specifically for the motors power curve will give you what you need here.. or you'll likely have to move one notch further on the parts list to compensate for this combo. Not trying to be an ass here.. but spending this kind of time and money to then use stock springs is downright silly unless you're simply testing to see what those inferior parts physical limitations are before they fail. Also keep in mind how critical valve movements in relation to the pistons is to the longevity(not to mention the power curve) of a motor that will be revved.. and that dual spring architectures help keep parts in place if something goes wrong.. whereas single springs cause severe carnage. Been there.. done that.. and seen it happen MANY times in the past. That sort of thing happens more often on corner-cutting builds like this. PS. the extra lift from that particular cam will be nearly useless when you consider that the flow of those heads goes well past peak and over a cliff(yes.. it actually falls) as it becomes too turbulent. Of course it'll still keep making power far beyond a stock cam.. but actually less than a better optimized cam for that particular setup would be making while not being so hard on parts in the process. If you want a cam that takes advantage of everything possible for your specific collection of parts?(or even one that may be slightly over-spec'd with some room to grow?).. call Cam Research(who specialize in Ford only) and they will tell you exactly what your combo will be able to capitalize on and give you more average power under the curve than any off-shelf grind will.. which makes for a much more well rounded and pleasurable driving experience. I've purchased several from them so far and know many others who use them for all their Ford builds. Custom cams aren't as expensive as some would believe and the extra power gained.. easily off-sets the slight extra cost to give you better bang for the buck in the long run. Good luck with it.
Okay well, I've been reading about shimming the springs and it doesnt seem like something i want to risk, because i really dont want the springs to bind. I'll try to get new springs then for the valves and take it to the shop. But when you are saying screw in studs and whatnot what especially do you mean? Would i get those at summit or jegs? As for the springs, i guess ill just do a bit of research and try and see if i can find new stock springs and take them to the shop to be put in for me. I'll call Cam research as well and see what they can do for me. If nothing else the shop offered me a crower camshaft that would be made for the engine using stock springs so if nothing else, ill go with that. P.S. As for the cam bearings, where would i find a cam bearing rod to put them in? I dont really have one and would rather not pay to have them put in. It's just that when my dad passed away a bunch of stuff got lost. Does anyone know where to get one because local shops dont even know what they are.
even NEW stock springs = MAJOR FAIL on that cam. They'll likely be 40lbs short on seat pressure(about 30% short of what's required).. and almost 100 lbs at full open. those heads will have to have the old studs removed and the new screw in studs need to be drilled and tapped in place. There are tools available for the do-it yourselfers.. but unless you plan on doing many heads with them?.. they aren't usually worth the investment over just paying to have it done for you. IIRC.. most of mine where in the $75 range per size specific tool. Same thing goes with the cam bearing installation tool. Have to do several motors to help make it worthwhile over just paying to have it done for you. You also want to be damned sure they're installed centered and square too. Quick synapsis for you to ponder here; 1. heads will need to be converted to screw in studs 2. heads will need to be machined for positive type seals because regardless of which springs you decide to run.. you will never have the enough retainer to giude clearance for that cam. Interference issues arise at around .475 lift and higher. which means that those GT40 heads aren't quite as expensive as you had imagined. The basic reality is this. Speed costs money.. and if you want to play.. you have to pay.
