I guess it's just what you were taught when you were young and how meticulous you are. Personally I've built a few race motors that were pushed over their limits constantly and never had any failure............and I've built street motors with the same thoroughness.............I just don't believe in teaching the next generation of car builders not to pay attention to details and do the best possible job they can with the resources they have at hand, be it tools or the hard earned experienced of others. Like the Ole saying goes, "Do It Right The First Time and you won't have to worry about the second".........................................IMHO
a saying worth living by I grew up with my dad always using the best tools available but having junk yard parts so he kept doing the same job over and over because he was too cheap to buy new parts the first time. in the end he ended up spending prolly double what a new part wouldve cost in the first place all because he didnt do it right with NEW parts the first time
Don't be so quick to judge him. Those parts could have very well cost him little or nothing. I've aquired many parts via "horse trading", which is how he may have come into possesion of those parts. There are times to go all out and other times when time is of the essence to get a vehicle running, as in pulling an all nighter and cutting corners, just so you'll have transportation the next morning for work or school. I did that many times 20-30 years ago when all I had to drive was a 67 big block fastback Stang.
In today times...well actually mid 80's times, I rather have a factory junkyard part than a made in china new part.
with my experience in breaking my old truck time and time again I found that hitting the junkyard like me and my dad used to hit just about every weekend looking for the same part he bought last weekend only a good one this time was more trouble than it was worth. when I used to break my old truck (hot rodding it every chance I got) just about every weekend and not having any money to buy new parts. every time I went to the junk yard either they didnt have the part I needed or it was already broke or I bought it thinking it was good and sure enough it was broke or worn out. so after a few of those trips I decided its new parts for me from now on unless its not available then Ill take what I have and have it rebuilt so I KNOW its good
Even race parts are made in China.................all it takes to put "Made in the USA" is 35% labor..................like SCAT, CAT, EAGLE and others they have the parts cast in China and machined here............you have to watch very closely to make sure they are not "Made in China" without the label. I guess everyone has those memories...........my first car was a 1952 Chevy 2dr Htp and we put a 55 Corvette 235/tripower Blue Flame Six in it. I would break a 3spd transmission at least every couple of weeks and although my Dad was a mechanic he told me what I broke..........I had to fix on my own. We had a junk yard within bicycling distance and I'd buy gears and actually bought 2 good transmissions as spares. I got so good at changing the tranmissions that I could put the car in the garage with a broken trans and 1 hour and 20 minues later I'd back it out with the rebuilt/and or spare. Those were the days and I could tell a hundred stories about cutting corners back then.....................but even with cutting corners my Dad and Grandfather taught me to check every clearance/spec I could get to...and that has been with me for over 50 years. I can even remember honing a motor with a hand drill, using oversized cast rings on a .010 tapper (I reused the pistons and just had them knurled) and that 292 Chevy Six gave the V8 guys a good look at what 52 tail lights looked like................back in the early 60's. Enough reminiscing......................
I dunno.. it's doubtful that I misunderstood his intentions here.. but I just assumed the young man wanted to make the most of his cash and add his own personal mark on this build while he was at it. Personally.. I always try to be damned sure it's not a bad mark if the energy and cash spent actually warrants giving a crap. It's not like we were advising him to do anything really racy and beyond the normal call of duty when spending well over a grand of his very hard earned cash. Sure doesn't seem like another "junkyard overhaul" to me. I do know from personal experience and being around engine and car building all my life.. things can get VERY costly and time consuming when things get rushed towards "good enough for now". Now, we've all certainly cut corners many times through the years just for the sake of saving cash and/or getting to work the next day. That doesn't necessarliy seem to be the case here with this little hotrod. So, the fact remains that improperly built and clearanced engines can, and do, fail far more often while not consistently making the same power over the same period of time as the ones with meticulous pride built into them. Period. IMHO... just because it's not a $5,000 shortblock.. doesn't mean you don't have to treat it like one when you're putting it together, right? Also might be good for some people reading this to keep in mind that $2,000 to one person.. can sometimes seem like $5,000 to another. And from what I've seen.. not many people don't give a crap about a $5,000 motor. Except for maybe a few of the turbo guys I know who prefer to run stock shortblocks just to be able to say.. "it has the original 100,000 mile factory stock bottem end" when people ask.. and to also see how long they'll stand higher boost before they let go. They aren't typical though.. or even sane for that matter. PS. ALL.. the best engine builders in the world sweat the little details. And without a doubt.. that's exactly what makes them the best. Not to mention.. blueprinting ANY engine.. is worth power. Which just boils down to.. the more you put into it.. the more you get out of it.
I really would prefer not to cut too many corners. I would love to build this engine as much as I can and I've finally got it back from the shop. Crank undersized .010. Block bored/honed .040 over. Decked to 0 deck and everything shined up to look nice. The cam bearings are in, and the pistons and connecting rods are all together. The thing looks beautiful and I want to get this ball rolling a little faster as fast as I can. $640 in the machine shop and $400 on the pistons and rings alone blew open my budget. Now, the budget seems to be nonexistent but I would like to keep it beyond reason. So now it's onto the cylinder heads. What sized valves can I get? And what pressure springs can I get? The machine shop is going to regrind the seats for me and install everything. So now I just need to know what would be the best idea for my set up? Any tips? PS. Also. The crank shaft clearances are about .015" clearance. According to the ford specs that's about in the middle but idk what do you guys think?
Well..................welcome to the club of going over budget, it does happen more often than not. I am assuming you mean 0.0015 clearance on the crank, and not .015...........correct? 0.015 is going to be kind of loose...............and I don't think the motor will last very long with that kind of clearance. My race only motor is set up on the rods and mains are at 0.0025. Just make sure you check the clearance before it goes together................if nothing else, use some plasti-gauge.................and check each one. Did you already get the heads? Why would you need to buy new valves? About the springs................just make sure you choose the right spring that the cam manufacture suggests...........it may cost you a few more dollars but the shop check installed height when they put the springs in, also they should check the open and closed pressure on the springs to make sure they are within spec's.............also try and use good retainers and keepers.....you don't need Titanium, but get as good as you can afford......same with the keepers. Nothing like putting used keepers back in a motor only to have one break and drop a valve down the cylinder while the motor is running.....could ruin your day. I assume you will have screw-in studs...............if not then have the shop pin the studs so they don't pull out with the higher spring pressure when using that lumpy cam........................................
Yeah, i messed that one up. i meant to put another zero in there. It is .0015... And i have checked them all. Anyhow, im kind of confused here as i dont know what sized valves i should go with. The cylinder heads have new seats in them and i need to grind them anyways. Plus i'm going to get new screw in studs and maybe a cylinder head kit. (It didn't come with any hardware.. for $200 it wasnt bad since theyve been nicely ported. ) I was thinking of buying these... Any ideas? Thoughts? Will those springs be good enough? And will the valves clear the valve clearances on the pistons? ^^ On second thought, they seem like they'll take a long time to get here.. Anybody have a better product? P.S. I'm planning on using the original rockers.. Is that okay?
Ok, so what heads did you get? If they are the GT40 heads I didn't think they could take a 2.080 intake................................I thought they came with 1.84 intakes which would mean you may get away with using 1.94 without cutting new seats and installing bigger ones.....................I'm just not the familiar with any Ford heads except the early 289 and 351W's. Those are 2.080 intakes, just .020 less than the valves in my race motor. Did you get some aluminum aftermarket heads? As for the rockers, I thought the originals were non-adjustable and when you put in screw-in studs you are going to have to manually adjust them and use a feeler gauge..............if you have solid lifters. I will say this again, whatever cam you choose, you need to contact the cam manufacturer to get his recommendation to which spring you should use then buy that one. I have nothing against RHS, but some of their low end stuff is made in China, and I wouldn't put them in my car.............................just my opinion.
I didn't catch what cam you have but I'll repeat what olerodder said. Get springs that are recommended by the cam manufacturer based on the actual cam you have.
I have 1965 Ford 289 closed chamber heads that have been ported and have new valve seats and also have new bronze guides. New seats are going to be cut in anyways. So what should I go with. And also, I haven't called the cam manufacture yet. They haven't started to make my cam yet. (Going with a custom cam) so should I still call them and say "I want one of your cams. I don't have springs yet so what should I go with?" Or should I order the springs and say "these are what I have, can you make a cam that will work?" Which should it be?
realistically.. you won't be able to go larger than 1.94 valves in those heads. To get max benefit from the 1.94's.. it would be best to deshroud the intake back to the cylinder bore line(which is obviously different size @+.040 than the gasket which is often +.100 thou over the standard bore size). IMHO.. 1.90 is better and won't shroud quite as badly.. although I always de-shroud SBF heads as a rule anyways. Exhaust valves can be as large as 1.6 on those heads(actually.. you could go as large as 1.65 when a smaller intake is used if the only concern was mileage).. but you need to be aware that too large a valve brings about sharper transitions where the bottom cut ends and the existing port remains. Whicj inevitabley means that a throat cut becomes necessary(4 angle valve job). or at the very least blending becomes a necessity to get rid of those new jagged transitions. You'll also typically need to reshape the short side somewhat because of the amount of material removed whn jumping up that large from stock valve sizes. Personally for a milder build(which is what this is still considered to be).. I like to cut down a 1.6 Chevy valve to around 1.54-1.57 inch and just lightly blend the port in off a 4th "throat cut". Time spent here creating a stronger venturi can really pay off at all rpm ranges. Especially if you're running higher compression. Also be sure to get at least a 3 angle valve job to help the heads a bit more too. 4 or 5 angles are even better. Backcutting the intake valve is also slightly beneficial for street grinds. I usually run 35 degree cuts.. but many shops use 30 degree backcuts. You could also do the exhaust valves this way as well. Springs... need to be matched TO THE CAM.. never the other way around. The grind is designed based on the engine/driver requirements.. and then the spring gets chosen based on what's required to keep valvetrain under control. Also.. the springs(especially cheaper ones) will generally need to be not only larger diameter.. but also taller as the pressure and lift requirements go up. Which means that a 1.8 inch installed height spring will require a +.100 thou taller valve as well. Only stock length valves will work with 1.7 inch installed height springs.. and sometimes require +.050 valve locks when being used in conjunction with spring seats. FYI.. that kit you linked.. besides not working with these heads.. is actually only applicable to 1 head. So, you'd need 2 kits. Another concern is pushrod length.. which will be affected by the chosen valve length as well(taller valves/springs need longer pushrods to regain proper geometry/rocker sweep). Also keep in mind that as the amount of milling for heads and deck accumulate.. the need for custom length pushrods goes up. Not a huge deal as they can be ordered in anything + or - .050 thou increments.. but make sure the machine shop(or yourself) mocks up at least one side of the motor with a pushrod length checker to get the required length before ordering anything.
I'll be honest here, i seem to get thrown a bit when reading your posts groberts. Your intelligence knows no bounds. Before this thread i did not nearly know as much about machining as i do now. For me, reading this thread = constant researching.. So far it seems like you're doing great. For the Valves then, should i go with 1.90 Intake and 1.60 exhaust? Then have the machine shop cut the 1.6 down a few hundredths of an inch to about 1.57 and then what do i do? What exactly do i ask the machine shop to do? "I have these valves. They're 1.90 and 1.60. Can you shave down the exhaust to 1.57 and then do a 4/5 angle valve job on the heads to ensure the seats fit and mold right to the valves? Also, since im paying to have stud installed and springs installed.. I'll have to get back to you with those. Can you check the port measurements and measure the necessary length of the push-rods?" If i go with that, I'm guessing i will need to provide them the engine block again right? All that sounds like a very handsome bill.... Also! There have already been new seats installed (just not cut) do i ask them the size of them? I really don't know too much about these heads. and what length do i need the valve stems to be??
