Can gas mileage and fun go together?

You guys have been helpful on everything else I've posted so here goes nothing. I want to build a car I can have fun on the street with, hang corners, stop light race,cruise on the highway and still get good gas mileage. What motor combo can I use to do this? I thought of three on my own so far. 2.3L turbo coupe w/ t-5 , 3.8 twin turbo w/ t-5, or 302 single or twin turbocharged w/ t-5. I am trying to find a perfect balance between trying to get the car lighter while adding horsepower but not too much. I know the lighter the car the less horsepower you need. Please help I'm lost on this one. I do know whatever motor I will use I eventually want a 6spd behind it instead of the 5spd. Also what can I do to make a comet handle corners? I seen the stories in popular hot rodding of the guy that does camaro's that can handle. I am almost ready to drop a corvette front suspension on it so it doesnt handle like a beach ball. I desperately need your input. I'm not rich by no means but I have 2 302's and I can easily pick up a 2.3L the 3.8L is probly the hardest to get next to the turbos.

 

it all depends on how much power you want. I don't have my '74 Maverick any more, but back in it's day, it could pound out probably close to 500 HP with the turbo, but still got 20+ mpg if driven easy. To this day, my little '84 Mustang gets 30 and better (naturally aspirated 5.0L) with the 5 speed and 3.73's. It's not stock, either...but not wild. Just a well-thought-out combination. As far as handling, I have no clue about what to do with a Maverick/Comet. There are a lot of places on these cars that would benefit from stiffening, beefing, and modifying the suspension/chassis that would surely help. My old '74 didn't handle too bad, but it wasn't great either...but from what I hear, these cars don't handle well anyway. I'm sure someone can help you with that. IRS might be in your future.

 

Thanks for your help. I guess I gonna have to play ford motor company by testingd tuning different combo's to see what I like. My original plan was a twin turbo roller block out of a 86-95 mustang backed by a 5/ 6 spd backed up by a 8.8 or 9" rear. This one is probly my cheapest way to go. What did you do to your 74 to get close to 500hp and 20+mpg?

 

I thought a nice 4 banger would be cool, a new 4cyl most likely has more power than say a 200I6, but that whould require all the electronics and such, kind of defeats the idea of a hot rod to me, simplicity

 

Can gas mileage and fun go together?

Short answer... No

I think late model fuel injection and maybe a turbo is about as close as you will get.
Add a T56 with as many lightweight parts as possible and you will go further.

Losing 100 lbs from your car effectively adds 10 hp or .1 in the quarter.
Between losing weight, fuel injection, and smart gearing... you can make things better.
My Z28 with a T56 weighs 3500 lbs and got 29 mpg highway.
3.42 gears, 320 rwhp... not bad for a nearly stock vehicle of that weight.
Dave

 

Where do we disagree?
The 'No' answer was tongue in cheek...
I was also considering him to be looking for more than 20 mpg.
No numbers were mentioned, but at least 30 is what I consider to be good.

I think a power adder, a turbo especially, is where it's a for mileage.
You need far less radical parts to get good power, and a turbo uses no direct drive to consume fuel and power.

A T56 would make 4.11s run as 2.05s on the highway.

All this stuff is expensive though, you would have to save LOTS of gas for it to pay off.

Dave

 

I going to have to say dirty word in this post, but please overlook it, please.
A friend of mine has a 2000 C-5 Corvette. He spent $25,000 on an engine. The car was written up in Corvette World because some parts were used on his engine that had never been used before. John Lingenfelter personally touched this engine.

His engine is stroked to a 383. He has a six-speed manual transmission. He is making 438 HP at the rear wheels (548 HP at the flywheel). I was with him the first night he took it to the drag strip and the editors from Corvette World met him there. An independent rear suspension is pathetic for drag racing; they don't hook-up worth a cotton-pick. Yet, his "daily driver" ran an 11.80 1/4 mile.

I said all that to say this - he gets 26 mpg on the highway, running 75 mph. You can have fun and gas mileage, too. It's all in how you do it. You can do it better with an overdrive tranny, even better with EFI, and even better with a programmable engine system.

I apologize to those who were offended by three-time use of the word Corvette...er, uh...four times.

 

Do a search for turbo pics or turbo '74 maverick...something along those lines. Im too lazy to type all the stuff I did to it right now, but it was definetly budget (until the 2nd motor grenaded) and got decent mileage. Nowhere near what my Mustang gets, but still...not bad. Mustang gets 30+ constantly normal driving, and if I drive like I have an egg under the right foot, it's gotten as high as 43. Carb'd 5.0L T5 7.5" rear with 3.73 gears. 10.2 compression, Erson Hyd roller cam, roller rockers, FMS windage tray, electric fan (good for 5 MPG), on and on. Fun to drive...I'd say nearly as fun as driving the turbo 302 in the '74 Maverick was. Not nearly as much power, but still a lot of fun to drive, and that's the name of the game. Yeah, I've been smoked by some 'vettes, a blown camaro (which BTW blew the main caps out of the POS rear end at the strip) and some others, but it's still puts a smile on my face knowing that it's completely paid for and there's nothing on the entire car that I can't diagnose/fix in a matter of minutes. Try that with a newer EFI car.

 

I'm looking for 22mpg or more. If comp cams can build a 660hp windsor that gets 22mpg I should be able to get 22mpg or more out of a 400 to 500 hp twin turbo 302. I want to and will prove people wrong that say horsepower and good gas mileage don't go together. Thanks for your input guys.

 

As far as handling,I'd put a bigger sway bar in the front,one in the rear,17" wheels and I read something years ago about a "caster/camber" kit.It was intended for early mustangs,it relocated the upper control arms,therefore altering the geometry.It's what they did to the early shelby mustangs if memory serves.Maybe someone else on here has heard of them?As far as power/economy for cheap,build an aluminum headed 347 w/5spd,3.73 gears.That should make an easy 400 HP and with moderate cam & carb should get in the 20's(MPG).The 3.8 would be hard to package in these cars and they are notorious for blown head gaskets(even without a power adder).The 2.3 turbo could work,but wouldn't it be expensive to pull off,as well as turboing the v8?It's hard to make an old car do everything as well as a new one(i.e.-cobra,corvette,LS1 f-bodies)but that's why we have new cars....something for us to steal ideas from!I don't see why you couldn't have a Maverick or Comet that ran 12's,got over 22MPG,handled at least as well as a fox mustang,and was reasonably comfortable.But just keep in mind that everything will be a compramise;quicker ET=less MPG,better ride=not better handling,etc.Then again,you might make it run 10's on 87 octane,get 32MPG,pull over 1G on a skidpad and seat 4 comfortably.If you do,let me know how so I can build one just like it,only different.

 

I am not always a big fan of some of the parts that I will list here, but this is shooting for decent mileage as a slight compromise with traditional parts and without much mind to price...

306 on roller block
GT 40x heads (titainium valves, locks, retainers)
8:1 compression
218/218 @ 0.050" cam, Hyd roller
Lightweight crank, rods, pistons... titainium pins.
3310 Holley... I would say EFI, but that idea has been dropped by the thread owner.
Torker 289 intake, heavy plenum work.
Turbo or turbos... custom headers and wastegates
(can a vacuum carb be used with turbos???)
Aluminum flywheel
T56 (Viper mods so it can handle the power...)
C/F driveshaft.
Light duty 9" housing with back brace.
Aluminum center, yoke, and pinion support.
Drilled ring and pinion... (for weight saving)
3.89 gears (1.95 effective ratio on highway)
Aluminum rims
Drilled and starred axles
drilled front and rear rotors, aluminum calipers.
69.5-72 Maverick (less weight)
Fiberglass deck lid, valances, bumpers, fenders, C/F hood, fuel cell, carpet padding delete, rear seat delete, dry cell battery, electric fan and water pump, aluminum radiator, heat/AC delete, lightweight bucket seats, sub-connectors, aluminum brake cylinder, hyd clutch, kevlar clutch material, lower car, front chin spoiler, C/S alternator, no power steering, no spare, no stereo, gear reduction starter, 2.5" mandrel bent pipes (3" adds alot of weight),

I am sure I can think of more...
My idea is alot of power from a mild engine with turbos, good gearing with T56, and lots of weight loss with some areodynamics mixed in.

Take it fwiw.
Dave

 

Thanks for the input guys. I'm gonna go with the 72 comet gt 302 block and add a turbo or two. Also as for if I want EFI on my car I do want it. I want to add a stand alone fuel management system later on for better tuning. I would like to run a roller block w/ EFI but I don't think a stock roller block would handle 400 to 500hp using a turbo. If I'm wrong on the block please let me know and I'll go get a stock roller block sometime in the near future. I will run a t-5 until I can afford a viper t-56. The rear is still a big question of mine. Can you get a rear leaf spring car to handle like it's on rails or am I better off finding an old Jag for its IRS? ALso I would be happy if I could run 11's in the 1/4, pull close to 1g, and get over 20+mpg. Thats my goal and I know its not gonna be cheap or easy but I want to keep this car until I am so old I can't drive any more. So I can take my time on building it the way I want it. The one thing everyone needs to know is this car won't be what I want it to be by next month or next year I don't have that much money. I am trying to compare prices and buy the parts I need/want for as cheap as possible and sell the parts I don't need to help cut costs on my project.

 

A stock roller block is good for around 500HP,get a stud girdle and they'll live up to 600HP(for a while).A stock T-5 I don't think will hold up behind that kind of power on slicks,but I've seen 10 sec. mustangs with supposed stock T-5's.I'd work with the shelby community on leaf spring handling before I tried that Jag IRS idea.I'm not sure what,if anything aftermarket is available for that IRS(gears,lockers,HD axles,etc).Instead of a 6-spd,what about Tremec TKO?These have quite a bit more torque capacity than they did a few years back(people's putting 'em behind big blocks now)and the T-56 is kinda heavy by what I've read(and bulky).Just my $5.98 worth.

 

Back in the late 70s my dad had a 67 mustang he built that would pull the front wheels throuh 2nd gear and if he keep his foot out of it he clams of getting 21mpg. It was a 302 ported 289 heads headers and 3/4 race cam and Qjunk carb.

 

I've been brainstorming also. As far as a stand alone management system try a company called Megasquirt.They are a lot cheaper. As far as twins on a small block you would only run into room constraints in the enginebay. I'd look into a MII front end so you could delete the shock towers then put the twins in. I myself am shooting for a single setup.