Import motor swap?

Sorry to hear you don't like Ford I6's. Your points are pretty valid, too. Guess it's all in what you want...

Everything has its check and balances. I don't care what people tell you; the car market works within itself. There's no coincidence that cars are made to compete each other, but if you look at how they were built and such... it's almost like all the car companies are working with each other... even Ford and Chevy! Ford and Chevy worked together to design a 6-speed automatic in an attempt to help form bonds between the company...

In everything, there's things to consider:
Cost of car, motor, accessories, performance enhancers, ect.
Reliability of stock parts
Complexity of components
Availability of parts
Engine Weight
Manufacturer
Horsepower and torque potential

The list goes on and on...

Just do yourself a favor: Before you jump into a motor swap, especially an import motor, do your research. Don't listen to the people who are full of talk but lack the walk. Even I don't know enough to go by, but the information I gave you should be a good basis as to what you want in a motor and such...

 

I agree. My vision includes the old torquey V8 smallblock Ford. Nothing like it...

However, a certain amount of respect is due for quite a few import engines, some serious engineering went into them. The Supra straight six is like 170 cid last time I kept up with it, same as my 120hp GMC Jimmy 2.8. It makes a *little* bit more power than the 2.8.

Part of the appeal of these cars for me is the sheer power available at a cheap price. Parts for the 302 are abundant, kind of an understatement, and a unique combo is not hard to come by.

My take on it, for the money invested, I could build a really nasty 302 in place of an EFI import swap, hell, any EFI swap. Bottom line, my car will be my car, and props to anyone willing to take on a project that strays from the path well travelled, as long as it isn't a Civic engine with lots of blue lights under the car... lol

 

personally,I love the small ford, they are great motors, but please give a brief outline of a "unique combo"
as I see it, darn near everything that can be done to one has been done.

not trying to argue, just would like a clarification of what you would consider unique.

 

Well, when you ask or seek opinions, you get them. They will never 100% in your favor. I don't consider it slamming unless you personally attack the guy. Its just an opinion. Should it sway your dream of doing what you want? Absolutely not. Building something just to piss people off is cool in itself as long as you have the time & money. For me, it would be buying a 63-67 vette convertible and putting a Ford drive train in it.

 

Not so fast....somebody on this board is getting 33 mpg out of his 6 cyl!!!

 

<---- sits back and waits.

 

I like both W and C small blocks, and they all fit in our cars...
So there is a start.
Then the heads swap between them all for different combos.
However, you are right, as versatile as these engines are, most of the combos are around.
I am to the point in life where I think the greatest challenge for me would be to build a very high output engine that looks almost bone stock.
With enough money, an SBF that is extremely light and powerful could be built, and yet look close enough to stock to fool 98% of the folks that would peek at the engine.
That would be a real challenge.
Then stretch it further by making the entire rest of the car look bone stock too.
Challenge yourself on how to make good suspension and traction mods hidden within the stock wrappings.
Find tires and rims that are lightweight and hookin', yet still look bo-bo.
Use all the aluminum and titanium that you can, wrapped up with stock valve covers and gobs of Ford blue paint.
Try to get all those glass body parts incorporated into the car, yet still look like sheetmetal to the unsuspecting eye.
I find this challenging. Also, if I had done it, I wouldn't say a word to anyone (except maybe this board ). I would let folks think my car was not unique.
It's a bit of a rush.

Another unique thing that I think about is taking the plumbing and parts from a Buick 3.8 turbo and fitting them to a mild 302.
IMO the stuff would fit well in our engine bay.
I also feel like the aftermarket for this stuff is very good. So finding a turbo and intercooler that are slightly higher output than stock will be easy. Then parts like this would translate very well to a 5.0 displacement.
Blowers and NOS are fairly common today, so a turbo setup would certainly stand out.
I guess having owned several PSD trucks has really turned me on to turbos...

Dave

Something else I consider a lot these days:
Building a mystery car...
Take a Mav for example, then restore it perfectly, however restore it like it had a 351c 4v from the production line. Or maybe build a 'one off' Boss 302 Mav design study. (as long as you don't try to sell it to someone as a real -something it's not-, then you are fine)
If you have deep pockets, you could build a totally, completely, stock looking Boss 429 Mav. It can be done convicingly, no question.
Or you could build the only Spabber on the planet...

 

the engine mod i have always wanted to see for my old 302 was having a roller bearing design for the crank, rods and cam. i even did some research into creating my own. they would have to be serious duty, but i think that mod alone could free up some real serious rpm. If it could be made into an aftermarket kit for old v-8's (any make eventually) that would be awesome. other than that, you would have to forge your own block to try some of the ideas ive had.just as a side note, in 83 my old man told me no one would ever want or build a v-10. i shouldnt have listened then either, now he has one in his f250.

 

I wish it would

 

I clearly wrote that I made a typo which you responded to 3 minutes before posting on this thread...

I don't think 23-24 mpg is too bad considering what most other Ford cars got in them days.

 

Tylar, Tylar, Ford 6's aint so bad. I have a built 200 in my '63 Ranchero. Cost me about $1000 to build (.030 over bore, .040 off deck and head, 262 Isky cam and a little head work and a holley weber 2 bbl) and it puts out about the same hp as the old 260 V8 (150-160hp). And it weighs less. A good rebuild on a 302 would be about the same.

I have a 250 in my Mav and a 3x1 carb set up on the shelf waiting to go on. New Isky cam will run about $100 and the hp when done should be about 175-200. No Modified V8 power, but look at the old HotRod magazine articals when Ak Miller did this stuff to a then new Maverick with a 200 inch 6. It did 17 second e.t.s and mid 20 mpg. Standard 302's in a Mav would be hard pressed to duplicate that.

6's just have fewer parts to break. Dare to be different!

 

A 200 I6 in a Maverick can do far better than that. My Saturn SC2 has only 128 HP at the crank in FWD set-up, and it can break the one-quarter at 16 seconds or less. A car that weighs only about 200 pounds less but making a good bit more power should be able to break the 1/4 mile in less time.

Unless, of course, you're speaking of power at the crank... drivetrain losses might be more severe in these cars.

 

Drivetrain and areo losses are higher in our cars.
Those two areas were focused on for decades by manufacturers looking to keep up with EPA rules.
They figured the keys to making a gas engine clean and effiecient were in the design of the car, not the engine. Or at least the cheaper way...

These areas can be overcome somewhat by using some of the same tricks:
Aluminum driveshaft.
Aluminum tranny with at least one OD.
Aluminum engine componets.
Lower stance.

One other small thing that car makers do that makes a big difference is use lightweight oil...
They didn't go to 5w30 because it is better, but actually because it puts less drag on the engine. You get better MPG and gain back a bit of the power lost to the cats.
Then the manual trannys went to super thin ATF...
The ATFs became super slick with additives starting with Dexron. Now the Mopar and import tranny fluids are the slick option.
My T56 used Dexron2. The synchros started acting up. The gears were sluggish, 2nd and 3rd ground, and 3rd even popped out of gear a couple times. I could no longer powershift at full throttle...
Changed fluid a couple times, no change.
A birdy told me to use Honda ATF... It was unreal! The car shifted smoother than ever! Better than new, and fuel economy improved slightly.
Got o/t...

I wanted to touch on your 200 lbs comment...
I say it all the time: 100 lbs is 10 rwhp or .10 sec in the quarter.
So you are looking at 20 rwhp or .20 sec with same-same power.
It is smart to lose weight!
You get the effect of making more power without losing MPG, and you get MPG without losing power!

Dave

 

Synthetic tranny fluid/gear lube & engine oil will help a lot. In the late 70's on an H/Prod SCCA racer we gained enough horse power to keep up with the F/Prod cars. Within the next few years everyone was using synthetic oils and lube. We also gained 10psi oil pressue at race temps and reduced maintenance due to less engine wear. I've used it on my street cars ever since.

 

why would anyone ever want to put an import into a muscle car... that is just sacraligious..

if you are going to do that, let me buy the maverick from you so i can spare it the humility of people asking why .