can anyone tell me where i can find something to decode thease parts? i have a bellhousing d1ta6394aa and a flywheel c5ae6380e best i can find is the bell might be from a truck.. wanting to possably use this stuff on a 302 sawp on my mav
thanks you guys are good.. think thease will be ok to use behind a 302 will it bolt up? would i be better off selling thease and getting something else? sorry bout all the questions all this stuff is pretty forgien to me
As long as it's a 164T bellhousing and 164T flywheel it will work fine .... that is the setup I am using in my Grabber ...
It takes a different starter. When you go to the parts store, just ask for a starter to fit a 70 Stang with 351 and 4 speed. The 10" bellhousing and automatics all use one starter, then the 11" bell uses a starter with a shorter nose. Make sure you use the 164 flywheel like mentioned, but also remember it uses an 11" clutch. I just went all through this swap from 10" to 11" bell/clutch. If you get stock replacement stuff, you don't have a choice of size. If you use the 10" bell, then you use a 157 flywheel and 10" clutch. If you use the larger bell, it is the bigger stuff. Looking at aftermarket parts though, there are many variations. You can get 10.5" clutches for either flywheel, but it MUST have the bolt pattern for the particular flywheel you are using. You can also get different styles of clutches that use the 'Long style' bolt pattern. It gets a little confusing. I ended up getting a Centerforce D/F diaphram 11" clutch, but it was manufactured with the bolt pattern of an 11" long style. Also have to watch the bolt sizes on the 11" stuff. Stock pressure plate bolts are 3/8", but I used a Hays steel flywheel. It was drilled for 7/16" bolts... The Centerforce was drilled for 3/8", so I had to drill some of the holes larger in the pressure plate. Good luck Dave
I had no problem getting a starter ... just told them it was for a 71 Maverick 302. I am not aware of any differences in the starter for a 157 or 164 T bellhousing ...
10" bell or any auto with a small block bolt pattern uses a standard long nose. The 11" bell uses a short nose... Been through this many times having auto, auto/4 speed swap, 3 speed, and now 3 speed/4 speed swap cars. I always seem to have 4 of one starter and none of the other when I need it... It can be very frustrating. If you got a short nose starter by asking for a Maverick starter, they gave you the wrong part! It's that simple, because a Mav never came with a 4 speed or 11" bell... Not trying to be a smart@ss... Edit: When you asked for that Mav starter, did you say "4 speed"? If so, they may have not seen it under Maverick, so they may have defaulted to 4 speed Mustang in their computer, which would have given the short nose. You don't find too many parts counter guys that ambitious anymore. Usually 'if they don't see it listed, they don't sell it'.
Pretty sure they listed two different starters ... long nose and short nose depending on whether it was C4 or 3-Speed .... if I remember correctly. I know I never brought up the fact that I had a 164T bellhousing or had to ask for a Mustang part ... Also NAPA lists two different starters for a 1971 Maverick 302 ... one for Auto and one for standard shift.
Until this past month, I had always believed that the long nose was auto and the short nose was manual. Very simple and what I have thought for decades. However, my 3 speed had a long nose, much to my frustration! (I couldn't find my 4 speed starters, but had 4 auto starters) This caused me to do some checking and I found out that only 4 speeds used the short nose. This is cars anyway... Trucks could be different...
I wonder what they list for 72 Maverick? My long nose in the 3 speed was original... Maybe things changed in 72? I guess I should just say that if the author of this post has an 11" bell, be prepared for a possible difference in starter...
Here are pictures from NAPA: 3-speed C4 Notice the nose doesn't look all that different .. however ... check out the location of the gear on the starter. The Gear on the C4 starter will definitely slide further into the bell to engage the flexplate where as the 3-speed will not engage as far. Apparantly the flywheel is closer to the spacer plate than the flexwheel ... So I would say short is for manual ... long is for C4 ... So what you have been thinking is correct ....
thanks again guys.. im sure i will be asking more about this stuff later as im not sure what i want to do just yet.. on to me next question lol
NAPA lists the indentical parts numbers for a 1970 Mustang 351W with either C4 or Manual as they do for 1971 302 Mavericks ... either C4 or manual ...
I just went on the Napa site and looked up 72 auto and manual starters. Got news for you... They are wrong. A 72 manual tranny takes a long nose, they show a short nose. That is why you got the right starter for your 164 flywheel, they gave you the wrong part. On the Summit and Jegs sites, where I was getting my info, they show SBF autos and 3 speeds using the long nose, and the 4 speed (164t) being the only use for the short nose. Gotta say I believe they are right because my 3 speed had the long nose. Edit: The long nose will NOT bolt up to a short nose app, but the short nose will bolt in where a long nose should be. The short nose on a long nose app will just grind as it does not come far enough forward to fully engage the flywheel. Ask me how I know...
I for one am enjoying this discussion! I have had problems with starters before too, and also have a bin of starters that range from FE's to 6's(V's & inline) to 460's std's and autos. A few times I've been ready to pitch em all.
