C4 tranny questions 69.5 maverick

Just picked up a good C4 tranny for my 69.5 today. Its not like the one I am about to take out,,,,,, Where the bellhousing bolts to the transmission, the pattern appears to be different,, I know its a 164 tooth bellhousing, but I have the 157 tooth housing,, will the bellhousings interchange?? Also, what, if any is the difference between (im gonna say) old style and new style C4 transmissions? If I had to use the 164t bellhousing, will it fit in the 69.5 (1970) transmission tunnel? The tranny is from a 79 Ford pickup, had a 302,,, they swapped in a 460, and did not need the small block anymore. Will a 351W flywheel work on a 88 5.0? I have a 164 tooth flywheel 50oz, from a 351. any info would be great! ChadS

 

The pickup trans is most likely a pan fill transmission, where the dipstick tube goes into the pan rather than into the case. The bellhousings are different...the panfill transmission uses a bell that bolts to the case with I believe 7 bolts where the case fill uses a bell that bolts onto the pump. I do believe that you can use a case fill style bellhousing on a pan fill transmission, though. Just bolt the bellhousing to the pump like you normally would. But obviously you can't bolt a pan fill bellhousing to a case fill transmission.

Also, all 351w engines used the early 28oz balance reguardless of what year it was. That includes all 69-97 351w engines. That also means that you can't use your 351w flywheel on a '88 5.0 as the balance will be different.

 

Thank you! Im wondering if I have to change the bellhousing at all,, looks like it might fit in there,, may have to reroute the passenger side exhaust pipe further away. Are they any more heavy duty than a case fill tranny? Chad

 

A C4 is a C4 when it comes to cases.

Its the # of clutch packs inside that make it stronger. That and the servo.

But the case fill transmissions weren't any better than pan fills.

I do however prefer the case fill transmissions because you can buy an aftermarket deeper sump pan for it.

 

To make things simple, try and find a case fill c4. The pan fill is perferred by some because of the belief that the bell bolted to the case makes it stronger than the pump bolted style. Not sure if this applies to mild built engines anyway. There are several differences in what you refer to as old style and new, mainly the early one's in the 60's had a 24 spline input shaft instead of the later 26 spline which would need matching flexplate and converter. To use the pan fill one, you will have to get a 164 tooth flexplate and the larger bolt pattern converter. I recomend finding a case fill with a tag attached to the servo that has a "PEE" code prefix. These have five disc foward clutch packs. 157 tooth "small" bell housings are more friendly to header installation too. Check the transmission thread here for lot's of info on the subject.

 

Well said. I was hoping Dave would step up here and offer his wisdom.

 

The bell housings are interchangable. It will look funny when you bolt your small bell housing to the pump (re-use the bolts from your old tranny) but it will be fine. The dipstick that goes into the pan is usable if you can find a way to stablize it. The big bell has to go with the large flywheel in order for the starter to work. The small bell has to go with the small flywheel for the same starter to work. They both use the same starter but with the larger flywheel it has to be spaced farther from the center of the crank - that it what the larger bell does. (it also fits over the large flywheel)
The internal parts of BOTH tranny types are the same but the "pan fill" tranny has all the best parts. Clutch drums that hold the maximum number of clutches, hardened input shafts, and bigger servos for the intermediate band.
I am unsure if there is room in the 69.5 for the bellhousing for the 164 tooth housing - it will fit in the later models but yours has a smaller tunnel and the engine sits closer to it I think. It shouldn't be a problem with your old bell swapped onto it. The pan fill cases are the strongest of the cases - not an issue unless you are pushing more than 600 HP. The added material around the front of the case on a pan fill makes the entire front of the case stronger - even the front servo anchors. That is why, for the real monster power machines, it is the case of choice. I could use that bell but you are too far from me to come and get it. I have a good core that I will build but I would like to have the bell for it. I don't usually supply bellhousings with my tranny's but with the large bell it might be worth it.

 

I noticed, 167t, the converter bolt pattern is larger, is the converter bigger in size as well, VS the 157t flywheel smaller bolt pattern torque converters. I think I can squeeze it in the narrow tunnel, got plenty of room at the firewall. I was worried where the starter would be located to the exhaust, and the exhaust manifolds still clear around the bellhousing. I have a 88.5.0 roller engine, took it out of a 88 t-bird sport coupe, I took the manifolds off the t-bird, and machined them down to fit inbetween the shock towers. I had to change the angle of how they set on the heads, made a set of cast iron block huggers out of em. With them being drawn in closer, due to the bellhousing and the flywheel diameter larger than what I have for exhaust room. I peeked at it yesterday, and I think its a go to keep the 164T big bellhousing. The 88 motor had the 164 tooth stock,, its in good shape still. Big converter bolt pattern. (was a AOD) But that thing, well, If I got into the floor pans, I may have well built a front clip for it. (Still thinking about it) air ride struts of somesort, Ive sen em for the older mustangs, and I know bout semi truck air brakes, so its got me thinking. But, do ya do that to a good car that is still pretty solid in that area? (The floor boards) Chad