Okay, I had to try them as the long awaited CSRP dropped spindles are still vaporware. So I called Fatman and asked a couple of questions before ordering them. Q: What tie rod ends do you need to use with these spindles? A: '65 - '73 Mustang tie rod ends. After explaining that there are 3 different tie rod ends for the '65 - '73 Mustangs, I convinced the salesman to ask someone else for the correct answer. A. Maverick or Comet tie rod ends. Okay so far. Q: What is the difference in the spindle pin height from a stock Maverick or Comet spindle? A: 2.5 inches Q: What other items am I going to have to change or modify to install these onto a stock Maverick? A: Nothing. These are a direct bolt on with no mods required. You should check the steering arm for interference if you are using a deep wheel. Q: Gee, seems almost to good to be true. So What is the total to ship these to me? A: $580 plus $48 shipping. (the website lists $540) So I received them Tuesday and mocked them up in my rims to make sure there would be no problems with the tires and wheels. Everything looked good. This afternoon, I decided to remove my stock spindles, rotors and calipers and install the new spindles. Disassembly went smooth, just as expected. Then the fun began. First problem that i noticed is that there is no provision for you to use your splash shields. No mounting holes, etc. Okay, I live in SoCal, it never rains, I can make due until I can have a machinist friend drill and tap the required holes for me. Second problem was trying to mount the rotors. The rotors were touching the end of the lower control arms. This required some "persuading" with a 3 lb. tack hammer to allow the required clearance. Next problem was mounting the calipers. The problem here started with the brake line running directly into the upper ball joint stud. Since the brake lines are a solid tube for approximately 2" from the caliper, there was no way to bend or modify the brake lines to clear the ball joint stud. Since the upper and lowers are in really sad shape on this car, I simply cut off the extra length on the stud. (This is a temporary hack job.) I will have to have new brake lines made to route around the stud for a permanent installation. Next problem had to do with the holes for the brake calipers not being drilled true. If you started the bottom bolt first, the upper bolt hole was 1/4 of the hole diameter out of alignment with the calipers. This required a little massaging with a rat tailed file to create the clearance to bolt the calipers to the spindle. Ideally, these holes should be welded up and redrilled in the proper location and angle. Okay, calipers mounted. Turn the steering wheel. Uh-oh. You can only turn the wheels about 10 degrees either way before the top of the caliper hits the upper control arm on the back of the control arm. Get out the cut-off wheel and trim the control arm to create the required clearance. (Did I mention that the upper and lower control arms are in really sad shape and need to be replaced SOON?) Finally, everything is mounted, tight, and clears every other thing. Mount the wheels, take a turn around the neighborhood at very slow speed listening for any noises, feeling for any thing strange, etc. Noticed right off the bat that I now see cars in the rear view mirror rather than asphalt. Also noticed that the car turns much easier than with the stock spindles. Apparently, these spindles have a shorter steering arm and have dramatically decreased both steering effort (on a manual steering car) and turning radius. So over all, construction quality could use a little improvement. These components were never tried on a stock suspension before. If they had been then they would have known that stock control arms will not work with these spindles. I will try to get access to Global West and Control Freaks tubular uppers to see if they work any better with those control arms. Stock type brake lines will hit the upper ball joint stud and cause you not to be able to mount the calipers. Custom brake lines are required. You will have to drill and tap the holes for the splash shields yourself if you want to run them. You will have problems with the calipers mounting to the spindles until you correct the mounting holes. The return policy only allows returns of "parts that have not been installed". So if you choose to purchase from Fatman Fabrications, the policy is if you buy it, you own it". Since none of these problems would have shown up until you were actually mocking up the parts, you would have already "passed the point of no return" so to speak. The pluses are: Full suspension travel with full springs, full range of motion on the shocks and a 2" drop in the front end. Also tighter turning radius and decreased steering effort for manual steer cars. Overall, I would give them a 6 out of 10 for price, a 5 of 10 for quality of the piece, a 3 of 10 for knowledgeable sales people and an 8 of 10 for driving improvements. 10 being good.
Thats strange, I know someone that has them on his '70, they went on like butter, he's never had a problem. I was considering buying them, so I asked him all the details, but decided it was cheaper to cut the springs.
I plan on calling them this morning and also sending them pictures of the problems. The issues with these spindles are similar to the issues I have seen with several other items from Fatman over the years. Missing mounting holes, holes that are supposed to be threaded but aren't, etc. I must say that the two issues that caused me the most grief were the stock brake lines interfering with the ball joint studs and the calipers hitting the back of the upper control arms to such an extreme. I had to cut a fair amount of material from the back of the arm to provide enough clearance so the car could turn. I need to replace the upper arms anyway, so maybe different arms would not have the interference problem at the back? But I see no possible way that the stock brake hoses could work with this combination. I will have a set made to clear the ball joint studs. The misaligned holes could just be a bent jig or carelessness. Overall, I am happy with the spindles. Just not happy about how much extra effort and much customization I had to do to put these on a stock Maverick. And the cost was a little high for what you get as well.
The ball joints do not sit down as low in the stock Maverick disc brake spindles. The cotter pin fits right in the castle nut with the original spindles. I don't know how to measure the taper on the hole. I suppose I could measure the hole diameter at the top and also at the bottom, the depth of the hole and then calculate the required angle from those measurements. Sounds like a good project for after Knotts Berry Farms. I need to replace the uppers as the shafts are shot. I will replace the spring perches with roller perches at that time. I am looking at the Classic Performance Products uppers at $309 per pair. This will be a good opportunity to fix some other little annoyances.
When are we going to get before and after stance pics? Good write up. Doesn't sound like something I'd do, but I am sure the future will see plenty that need this info. Edit: A couple things I noticed: Are you using these on your 69, or 72? I ask because I keep hearing that the 69 has a Falcon suspension, as opposed to the 70-77 with Mustang derived suspension. That said... I don't have a 69, never had, and wouldn't know what the difference in suspension parts were if you smacked me in the face with them! I just thought that if there was that big of a difference, and you were putting them on the 69, then that might be the root of your issues. Just trying to help. They said to use "Maverick" tie rod ends... Which ones? There are at least 2 from what I understand. Just like you told them about there being at least 3 Stang ends.
These are being used on the '72 beater car. The uppers are the original control arms. Really sloppy and squeak like nobodies business. I will post the before / after pictures later tonight. It dropped the front 2 1/4". As I was writing this, I got a call back from Fatman. To address the problems I had, there are several steps required. Caliper to control arm. Grind off the top part of the caliper bracket until it doesn't contact anymore. Brake hoses. Use hoses from an '85 Buick Riviera (NAPA #36959) drill out the brass block of these hoses to 7/16" and use brass washers and a banjo bolt to attach to the caliper. Lower control arms may interfere with the rotor. Modify the outer end of the control arms with a hammer or grinder to give yourself approximately 1/8" or more of clearance. They confirmed that there had been a jig issue that caused one of the spindle to caliper bolts to be misaligned. Now fixed. In the paper that the box was stuffed with, they had included a plastic bag with the banjo bolts and a brass fitting to allow hooking up a stoplight switch for older cars.
Jay To me it looks like they drilled the hole with the morris taper drill to deep so the cotter key will not index into the castle nut . Just my nickel . Jay
I also had these before with no problem, was in 96 or 97 and I had a 70 and had to change the upper ball joints becase the stock ones went too deep just like yours look in the pic. Kind of funny, because I had to do this on the 70 I have now to get late model disc brake spindles on it. It has been over 10 yrs ago for me but I do recall using the recommended brake lines, and they were banjo style. I really liked them, when I got ready to sell that car I pulled those off and sold them to a guy with 70 mustang, don't know if he had any problems or not. It seems if they knew they had a jig problem they would replace the problem parts at no cost.
i agree with mavdog71 i use tapered reamers at work it doesnt take to much to drop the shaft of the balljoint down to much. What might have happened was the spindle may have been scard up so thay tried to ream it out but went a little to far. It still will lock off tight but also created your other problems........
I think I would exchange them for better quality pieces or get my money back. Now that they have admitted to defects in the jig there should'nt be a problem with a return. Also, the rotor is so close to the lower arm you will not have any room for the splash guards. Ken
I have looked at several lower control arms. There are large differences between them in how much material there is outside of the ball joint. I am looking at a set of tubular lowers that don't appear to have this problem. Also, several of the lowers that I looked at would have cleared without problems. I will have to have the holes drilled and tapped to allow the splash shields to mount.
I really like the drop spindles for the stance and full spring and shock travel. I almost bought some. Instead, I went the cheap way out and cut my springs. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if they advertise them to fit with stock components, they should fit. Ken
I agree, they should fit without having to replace everything else. The biggest source of problems was making them 2.5" dropped instead of 2" dropped. That would have allowed the stock brake hoses and provided clearance for the caliper bracket. The LCAs have enough variance that the ones they prototyped from probably fit with no issues. I found 2 sets at a friends shop that would not have interfered at all. (He had 7 other sets that hit the rotor, though. ) I am happy with them overall. I would have preferred that they just bolt up. But they are not the only company that has issues. I just installed an Edelbrock Performer intake, an Edelbrock Performer carb with the Ford linkage and a set of Edelbrock valve covers and an Edelbrock air cleaner. The carb requires a 1/2" spacer because the linkage hits the valve covers. Finding an air cleaner that will work with the Ed. carb is difficult. They only make one filter base that will work with their own carb. The linkage adaper for the throttle linkage to mount to the intake is in the wrong place if you are using an Ed. carb also. The accelerator pedal is already most of the way to the floor if you just bolt it up following the instructions. This means that the secondaries would never open. I had to fabricate my one mount to attach the linkage to so I could get full throttle motion. So much for just bolting on parts, huh?
