Hi folks, Don't start cussing me to you hear me out. I am thinking of swaping the old or should I say new c4 out for a glide. After the 6th time in a month and a half of taking my c4 out and hauling it about 100mi round trip every week I'm done with it. I've took it to the best builder around here and they can't get it right. When I finally did get to make a few good passes last weekend the car was taken off the trailer and has sit since Monday. I get in it yesterday to move it to get ready for this weekend pull it in gear and it sits still. Talk about discourageing. I have been checking on glides I'm going to do it if it takes me another year. Has anyone done one and is there enough clearance for the floorpans? I have checked my linkages everthing is engageing, fluid level is good and don't smell burned.
Bean, i'm pretty sure that a glide will fit but you might have some clearance issues. Honestly though, I wouldn't do it......I think it will slow you down. My c4 has been together for three seasons now with no problems, and that's with a high stall 8" converter and a t-brake. My c4 has held down many low 6 second passes and will be holding down some high 5 second passes this year and i've never had a problem with it! If you want a c4 to outperform a glide, call JPT in Michigan and he will hook you up. Builds some of the strongest c4's in the business and are great people to work with. How much is your tranny guy charging you to "Build" your tranny?? The reason I ask is because there are all kinds of ways to build a c4, from a $200 dollar rebuild to a $3500 all aluminum full roller that will slay most glides! I learned real fast that a $200 rebuild WILL NOT hold down much power for long....just the parts for my current C4 were over a grand and that's not including the ATI converter or the assembly.....
yes, I've done it, with stock chassis. IT's not any larger than a C4...in fact, even the distance from the face of the UltraBell to the mount studs is the same as a C4. I did have to shim the 'glide's rear mount upward about 1/4", but other than that, the hardest part of the swap was getting the driveshaft made. I don't remember if I had to shorten it or make a longer one...been too long ago. The dipstick however was a challenge, but at the time I was trying to use one of those cheap chrome jobs that wouldn't fit the between the floorpan and the back of the bellhousing. The one I have now is a flextible one that will fit anywhere. That being said, it does take a fair amount of cash to build one right. I've got about $1800 in mine total. I used a JW Ultra Bell bellhousing, JW "the Wheel" flexplate, and a custom made 9 1/2" dia. Torque converter that stalls about 4800-5000. The converter is the KEY component as to whether it will be faster than a C4.....since the 'glides low gear is very close to the c4's second gear ratio. BTW, it was nearly a bolt-in deal once I got the bellhousing and flexplate. JW makes it simple. Plus, the bellhousing is SFI certified and so is the flexplate. I've got a PG case already machined for the ultrabell listed on Ebay right now that has one bid...and is a steal for no more than it's going for and the amount of work it's taken to cut the OEM junk bellhousing off. You're also going to want a steel or aluminum (steel is stronger) high clutch hub, I usually just get a new pump already machined for a Turbo input shaft from PTC (about $140), input shaft for both the 1.76 and 1.82 (uni-length) gearsets, stock overhaul kit, TCI trans-brake valvebody, one-piece shift lever (JW, TCI, Jegs, etc) and of course the converter. The 'brake valvebody is only about $40 more than the standard manual valvebody, so I figured what the heck. I even use the stock pan. I can't stress enough how important it is to have the converter PERFECT for your combo, otherwise the 'glide won't show an improvement in ET's...and maybe even slow it down some. Consistency is SO much better though, as is safety. Just leave the line, smack the shifter at 6500 or so into high, and both hands back on the wheel for that awesome top-end blast. I love mine and I doubt you could pay me to go back to a C4.....er....that is unless someone wanted to sponsor LOL. I've got tons of stock powerglide stuff laying around, gearsets, cases, governor supports, shift detents, and other hard to find stuff...if ya need anything let's talk.
Mavman, I think your motor is making ALOT more power then his.....i've always been told that you need to be making tons of horsepower to see any benefit from a glide? I know one thing for sure, performance tranny's are expensive!!!!!!
I do know a guy that picked up .1 in the 1/8 over a turbo 350 in a Chevy II...that runs 7.90's. It's all in the converter. Dad builds his C4s with stock parts, except the intermediate servo and vavle body. They usually last an entire season in a 2600 lb fairmont in the 7.30-7.50 1/8 mile and 1.55-1.65 60'. Something has to be killing those C4s, whether it be low pressure, too much clearance in the forward clutch pack, etc etc. You can build one yourself pretty cheaply...I think ours are usually in the $250 range, but without a transbrake. Transbrake valvebodies for c4's are high$$$!!
Back when I built my c4 I went ahead and went with the six gear roller planetary, the hardened input shaft, heavy duty drum, billet servo, reverse valvebody,blah blah blah.....and it ended up costing alot but I figured the initial investment would pay off in the long run. However, I would like to try a powerglide in my car to see if it would pick it up some.....problem is i've got so much tied up in the c4 that I can't afford to put together a good glide.... Looks like i'll be pulling mine out at the end of this season to do a freshening on it, will be my first time doing it on my own so we'll see how it turns out...As I understand it the way my tranny is built it would be fine for several seasons of heavy 1/8th mile racing on motor, running say 6.70's to 7.00's w/ 1.45 to 1.55 60' range on footbreak. However, as I have heard from several racers, when you start t-braking alot during a season that the tranny would need to come apart at the end of that season for sure. The t-brake (especially when used with nitrous) seems to be really hard on the c4 and causes more maintenance issues.
Bean, I don't know what you are running for an engine, the mods that have been made to it or what version of C-4 you are running or the prep it has undergone but you deffinately have a mismatch somewhere. Who is rebuilding it for you? What valvebody mods have been made? What cooler are you running? What torque convertor? Is the same guy who is building your C-4 going to build your 'glide? How about taking it to someone else and see what they say first? I'm not trying to say don't put the 'glide it your care but if you are going to go to the expense of a pro-prepped 'glide and adapting it to your car it seems to make sense to get a second opinion on the tranny you have already. PaulS
low dollar C-4 build requires: Stock tranny from a 302 powered supervan Universal rebuild kit with steel and lined plates Double wrap low reverse band Steel intermediate band "Trasns-Go" street and strip shift kit you will need a pair of "V" blocks and a 3/16" drill and a drill press to drill some "non-precision" holes in the clutch drum to assist oil removal when it engages. Other than drilling the drum you have a stock rebuild with clearances checked and endplay adjusted. Install the shift kit following the directions and using those parts that are suggested for your use.
you don't say what your application is - street?, track only? for a track only car with the right engine torque and converter, you usually can't beat a glide. have one myself in my s/st car. but for a relatively normal car getting a fair amount of street use, the c-4 is the ticket. i know guys using them (c-4s) behind 9 second 460 motors with more than 300 runs on them before rebuilding. unless you like the extra work, get the c-4 built properly for your application. everything fits properly without fabrication and aggrevation. for more than near stock horsepower you want at least 5 forward and five direct clutches. for stout power, a 6 pinion planetary, torsional input shaft, rev man valve body, a properly matched converter from a quality company (i like ati and coan, but there are others out there too). if you are in an area where there is a problem getting a good rebuild, companies like ati will build you a trans and ship it to you. costs more, but they stand behind what they build if you don't try to bs them if you have a problem. the c-4 works.
Thanks for the info men, Right now the guy putting my trans together is the same guy who builds alot of trans for the 10.5 outlaw cars at about 1900 hp. But then again they are shucking some bucks into those beast. I on the outher hand don't have the funds for that. Today I have been checking around and it looks like about $1500. up to get me into a good glide, adapter everything less converter. Coan was the most help in getting some information. That is with an adapter,I think Mavman has finished leaning me towards the ultrabell much easier and sfi approved. I have a friend 10.5outlaw racer in my said he would make me a deal on a glide that come out of one of car. $1200. for everything JW case, JWtailshaft Hardend Turbo spline shaft, he did say I needed some planitaries from where they wouldn't stand the 10.5 car. He is also going to give me a ger converter and an ultrabell that fits a mopar which I would sell. The ger converter was not for his car but one he bought for something he was playing with, He give about $700. for it alone. I am thinking of going this route with some stock 1.76 planitaries and jus buy a ultrabell and a flexplate I would maybe end up with 1700.or 1800. in the hole thing converter and all. The way I am going now I am going to end up buried in a c-4 and never get away from it. Losing a little ET isn't bad as taken that thing out every week. Later on I would know I could put some hp to it and stand up to it.
dont waste your money on the ger piece. ask around about them first. i had a bad experience with them and many others have too. people who have had good experiences with ger are few and far between. he keeps the pa atty gen very busy with complaints. when it comes to trannys and converters, you usually get what you pay for, and ger is cheap for a reason.
Bean, about 3 years ago I went through the samething you are going through. Go to the track, make a pass, put it on the trailer,,,etc. etc. I did this for 6 straight weeks taking it back to the same guy everytime. Finally I found a shade tree mechanic(those are usually the best anyway) and he fixed it right up for $50. Turned out there is a small needle that goes behind the modulator vavle that the "other" guy never put back in it and it was burning up the clutches. That tranny worked well(basically all stock stuff running 7.70's) until I built the new motor and I melted that tranny on the first pass. Had it rebuilt with good stuff and its been running 6.50's ever since. Point is the c4 WILL hold the power, just need to find someone that can make it right for you. I have been told by ALL my chebby buddies that the glide would pick my car up as much as .2 (in their opinion) I would luv to pick up that much but I will stick with the c4.......for now! Good luck
