OK any really good transmission guys on here. What if the stator in the converter isnt free wheeling at speed?? I know what it does to the converter in theory but I have no idea how much power loss it would cause in a race set up. Just a thought.
Well, after all this information it sounds like you have done everything by the book. I think you said that you dialed in the cam but left it straight up because that is what the cam manufacturer said...........I assume while dialing it in that it checked with the cam card. Personally with all of this info I'd go back to the cam manufacturer and ask for my money back, you've got the dyno report and the cam should have made HP over 6kRPM................that's what I would do. I paid a fair chunk of change for my new Crower Billet, and when my machinest checked the runout it was from .005 to .0175............I called Crower and they made a new one and sent it out Red Label.............there are so many things that can go wrong during manfacturing..................I've used Crower cams for some 30+ years and this was the first time I had an issue... and it was caught by my machinest. Let us know what you are going to do next.
I know that the 2/3 shops with chassis dyno's here have been using sometype of software for high stall converters, because they've asked. It makes an interesting read though.
I'm certainly no expert Darren, but if fluid is coming off the turbine its path goes directly at the stator and the stators job is to redirect the fluid away from the pump..........................I would guess that if it wasn't doing its job you would loose HP/TQ......................but I'm no expert.............just an "Ole Backyard Mechanic".
It redirects at stall and lower speed yes. If it doesnt hold on the one way clutch the torque multiplication is awful but this wouldnt effect the dyno pull at high speed. The stator has to free wheel on the one way clutch as speeds match so it doesnt interfere with the fluid flow. I just wondered what would happen if the one way clutch was locked not allowing the stator to free wheel at high speed. Maybe a call to the converter company Ron and chat with a tech.???? Is this a new to this combo converter Ron?
THksfor the compliment. Yes my engine builder is VERY fussy when it comes to clearances and installing parts. Had all piston to wall clearance honed for each piston.All clearances were cked multiple times. That comp cam that i listed b4 is about $100. cheaper then my custom cam. Well after i talked to the gentleman(at camm company) about my delema, and tried his recomendations to improve this situation, I wanted to make sure all other avenues had been checked out. There is a shop in Toronto that can install the cam in a lathe and ck all the lobes and lifts. They say they can ck the duration also. I think my next move is to pull engine, then cam and have it ckd. Then call Mississippi.Tranny is out for refurbish for next yr.Will let all know later whats gion on. Hope thatERD company from Derek has some info. Thks to all. RON
Ok Ron spent about 45 min on the phone with him tonight and he feels there is nothing wrong with your engine.He was impressed with the quality parts and workmanship that was put into it,but was wondering why the engine wasn't dynoed? He feels that the torque converter is your problem as it has been disscussed.TCI converters are decent "street" converters but he would never use one in a serious performance application.His car a SS/GTDA Camaro has a ATI Converter and has been tested to 2% slippage under full power.There is a way to check converter slippage on a chassis dyno by useing a speed sensor on the drive shaft and comparing it to engine speed.In his opinion you cam,head,intake combo should make power upwards of 7000 rpm.He also mentioned calling Competition Converters in Buffalo and speak with Carl (owner) if you are still unsure of his suggestion.
I'm certainly not trying to be critical here or start an argument, and I don't have experience building 2500hp engines, nor am I an expert on building race cars, but I've been drag racing for the better part of 35 years and have come close to setting a National Record is SS/IA and SS/BA back in the day....and I truly believe that a lot of people just can't afford to put their motor on an engine dyno. Before you venture down that road you need to know the reputation of the engine dyno guy, how qualified he is, and how many pulls you will get for your hard earned money......you just can't pick up the yellow pages and look under "Dyno Dude" and expect to get someone totally qualified. Some shops really know Brand X and others know Brand Y, but very few shops know both. From personal experience testing on a chassis dyno is just a fraction of what it costs to use and engine dyno, and for the street is more than enough. I spent 1-1/2 days on the engine dyno(one of the best facilities in California) which includes set-up/tear-down....... and spent $1k. There are cheaper shops around that use SuperFlow, these are around $800 but I felt they just weren't qualified to help me tune the 408. Now with these prices you also get a qualified person running the dyno, some more than others. Now with that said I believe this is more than most people just don't want to spend much money or just can't afford it. Also, when someone has a transmission built for strip they should choose someone that runs the completed trans/converter on an dyno, my UltraGlide was built by Mike's Transmission and he puts every trans/converter on the dyno and gives you all the specs including slippage........................but again a lot of people can't afford to spend that kind of money or just don't need a full on race transmission.......................I guess what I am trying to say is that the bottom line is that it is for my race only car....yes I feel all of the above is needed for a serious racer..........but for a street car that visits the track on ocassion....probably not.........IMHO So, if Ron had put the motor on an engine dyno and had the same problem he would know for sure it was an engine problem rather than a trans problem, and it certainly could be a trans problem....................now he has two things to check, which I think he probably will do over this winter. Sorry for the ranting.................guess I need some sleep.
With all this being said, I will send out the converter this winter and get it checked. Will ck cam also.then call cam manufacturer if needed.Thks to ALL who tried to help. Thks Derek for your phone calls to the friend at ERD.
call summit racing ask for Kevin He is my cousin he won the hp shoot out for building 302 Ford motors he will tell you what is wrong he knows more about cams than the people that make them
Olerodder,I hear what your saying and agree it can get expensive in a hurry if you run into troubles at the dyno session.I can only imagine what it just cost a DIRT modified guy to run his Bigblock for 9 hours!! on ERD's dyno.My friend just thought with the amount of money spent on the engine it may have been wise to run it on a dyno just to be safe (we both know anything can happen with performance parts).I really don't know his situation and how avalible a engine dyno is in his area. Too bad i didn't know sooner that he had his car running me and a few friends have rented the dragstrip tomarrow it would have been a good day for Ron to do some testing.
The poster a few posts back nailed it. TCI is not known for the greatest converters and there have been more than a few cases EXACTLY like this one on other forums. Plenty of similar situations happening all around the net if you take the time to search for them. So.. my money is still on the converter being too loose and soaking up the upper power band. I've seen cars lose almost 150hp before and this sounds strikingly similar in comparison to the head scratching that they dealt with too. Pop a 1,000 dollar custom converter with excellent torque multiplication in that trans and that motor will sing. Probably worth about 5-6 tenths at least.
