first link is probably junk parts and I wouldn't skimp when it comes to cams and valvetrain from ebay second seems reasonable for a comp cam and the extreme series is really nice due to the tighter LSA I spoke of earlier too. TBH.. the best bang for the buck will be the camresearch kit since it will barely be any more cash than that comp cam kit.. yet be tailored closer to what parts you have already. And that intake will not leave much at all on the table for smaller cam like that extreme energy lobe profile listed above. If you do get a larger intake though.. I would go into the 260'ish range for the comp cam or custom grind. If you want to stay lower budget right away.. spend the cash on a decent cam kit, studs/rockers,.. then swap intakes later down the road when cash flow permits. At this power/rpm level.. going from a smaller dual plane to a larger one isn't going to knock your socks off anyways. Off idle it won't be too noticeable at all.. then you'll probably only get another 4-8 ft lbs of midrange boost at most. If you went into the 280 range.. then it would be better worth the money to swap intakes for that last 10 ft lbs/15 horse gain. Basic speed parts rule will always apply though.. speed costs and you just need to decide how fast ya wanna go.
That sucks So this is the one that you are talking about http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=360549023221&cmd=VIDESC
sigh.. here we go again with the reading between the lines and misinterpretations. I said nothing about "breathing better".. but in reality that's exactly what a tighter LSA cam is intended to do for the midrange of any engine they're designed for. It has to do with overlap and scavenging effects. Also gives the lopey idle sound that the thumper/extreme series cams have due to the lobe profile/overlap periods ground in from the faster ramp rates. If you have a weaker exhaust port?.. and trust me here.. you certainly do with those heads anemic flow rates.. you WANT extra scavenging gained from a tighter LSA cam. Yes it is a type of bandaid.. and they are a tad bit peakier with less topend potential.. but we're all forced to make compromises in one way shape or form.. especially for street motors. Now,.. of course a wider LSA is good for idle characteristics due to less overlap and broader rpm ranges.. which is why an EFI/ECM equipped emmision vehicle is using them in the first place. They are more forgiving and can be better tuned for a MAF/EFI setup from an emmisions standpoint due to less reversionary effects. And if you seriously can't get a thumper cam to idle and run right on premium?.. bring it over to me and I'll help set you guys straight. Plus.. we always need to remember that a larger thumper cam(or any larger cam for that matter) will likely bleed off some compression down low too.. so there's that. If it's detonating at idle/off-idle under no load?.. you're obviously doing something wrong in the tuning department. My XE282 roller cam makes 17 degrees at about 900rpm and drops to around 15 in gear with 11.5 CR(205+ lbs cranking compression) with not one little sign of detonation at 48 degrees of locked out timing. Off idle torque and response is like an RV cam due to such huge initial spark lead(compression and CI obviously helps too) and then my programmable 7 series box starts pulling lead out at about 1,700 rpm based on the MAP/load until it reaches 38 degrees at full song.. -2 more for good measure past 6,800. So, yes.. it can be done with smaller cams quite easily unless the rest of the combo is not optimized correctly. But hey.. if you want a smooth idle at 700rpm and don;t care about leaving power on the table?.. be my guest as many do it all the time. But.. if you look at the proven combo's from all the major builders.. they don't often run wide LSA's on carbed engines.. and certainly not ones with poor exhaust port flow. I suggest calling camresearch and talking to guys who spec build cams based on the heads used.. not some "cookie cutter one lobe patter fits all induction packages made" approach. They will NOT sell you on a 114 LSA cam for that particular motor for one reason alone.. it will waste some potential and not give you bang for the buck from the custom grind that you're paying for. Good luck with it all. PS. I misinterpreted the comp cam linked above as the extreme energy grind.. and that one will be milder and closer to what baddad mentions with improved idle and broader power curves. The XE lobes will move the torque peaks downwards while still allowing you to choose a slightly larger profile to still have decent enough top end. Here's a few grinds to peruse from over at Summit. http://www.summitracing.com/search/...nd-lifter-kits/make/ford/engine-size/5-0l-302
If you think you can get that one to idle slower than what I could then I'll bet you good money it won't. You may be good, but you're not that good.
i have ran that 280h in two deferent motors and never had a problem if you were pulling studs then it sounds like you were getting coil bind
Maybe not.. but just maybe so. We could play hypothetical tuning games all night but something tells me that your ego may not allow an open mind here anyways.. so what's the point. What is the initial timing set at?.. wait.. let me guess.. 8-12 degrees? here's a bag of tricks to for you to try. hook up a timing light and vac guage. disconnect any vac advance and plug the port. set timing to 20 degrees(22-24 would be even better if the starter will let you get away with it after it heat soaks) reset the primary/secondary throttle plate for proper transition slot exposure. reset the front idle screw at lowerst possible setting. readjust idle screws for proper mixture. rinse and repeat as needed. once you get into high-idle tuning portions of the rpm curve(1,600-2,000rpm).. start to screw with the air bleeds by plugging them with fine wires to add fuel for getting rid of the newly caused lean misfires from running all that ignition lead. now test the tip in performance(chirp..chirp..chirp goes the tires) and take note of the extremely high vacuum readings. Move onto the rest of the ignition curve by pulling out tons of mechanical advance now that you added all that initail lead and try plugging in the adjustable vacuum pot with its tightest setting of around 8 degrees assist from a manifold vacuum port. Don't worry if you don't want to go to the trouble though.. I will take a video of my little iron headed 10.7-1 302 with overly large cam and too much overlap running 28 degrees.. or more.. of initial lead to show you how it's done. Just like the commercial says.. zoom.. zoom.
My ego ? I'm not the one jumping in here telling everyone else they have no idea what they're doing. And apparently you didn't read what I posted, or you wouldn't be asking these questions now.
ok.. on the reread and after a decent nights sleep.. you're actually right about me jumping on your experience level and needless posturing.. my bad and I overreacted a bit especially considering that you were quite polite with the simplicity of the "I beg to differ" comment. What sucked my ego into the debate was the "you can't do what I can do" comment. But I will say that it would be nice if you tried to do that a bit less since I'm quite competitive and rarely back away from "one upmanship" contests. Wish I could say that wasn't an issue for me at times.. but I'd be lying if I did. I will say this to sum up the comparison of the Mustang owner to this OP's cam choice. Saying that ALL thumper cams(or tighter LSA cams) are bad and advising against their usage is just plain wrong IMHO. Especially considering that the bottom line grind may be used with a stock converter. The reality is that nearly ANY cam can be made to run on premium fuel.. but it becomes a situation of quickly diminishing returns.. or even potential losses.. when you start having to detune the timing and fuel curves to make it work on the street. It's also my firm opinion that almost any performance motor over 9.5 CR should be running premium fuel anyways.. since it runs cleaner and gives more margin for error if you like to run it a bit harder at times. It also allows for more aggressive tunes to better get your money's worth from the cash spent on the parts combo. Which is why there's a whole handheld tuner industry built around that specific rationale. On a more personal note.. I realize you don't know me from your neighbor 4 blocks away and haven't the foggiest idea what I know about tuning(especially since it's just been "all talk" so far).. but it is fairly substantial to say the least. I don't just "build and tune" engines.. I reengineer and modify them to improve upon the factories shortcomings while I'm at it which is no small feat in itself. I actually get paid to do it a few times through the year(mainly for less time sensitive projects that I can more liesurely "pick away at"..and turn down many more projects and tuning opportunities due to running my painting business. Due to the sheer number of people I know in this hobby/industry(plus I'm an old street racer by nature).. I could very easily transition into full time work if it were my choice. Hopefully that may come later on in life when the wife will tolerate it a bit better and forget some of my previous "racing misdoings" and blowing expensive things up(I see learning experience.. she only see's $$$$ lost). Point is with all that.. if you were trusting enough to ask my opinion.. I'd be more than happy to put a thinking cap on to help you through projects or with tuning issues like the neighbors car if you'd care to PM me at some point down the road. Being a contractor.. summers are much tougher than winters for amount of time I can split off to help but I would be happy to lend a hand whenever I can. Sorry for yankin' your chain again. :Handshake PS. also wanted to add an apology to the OP for going off on tangents. This is the cam that I would choose if I chose not to have camresearch do a custom grind based on my specific combo. I've ridden in and heard many cars with similar sticks in them and they are excellent all around street cams with a nice little lope at idle while still maintaining decent vacuum levels for power brakes. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=799&sb=2
Cam shaft opinion threads usually go south since everyone has their own opinions. And opinions are like $%^%$#s, everybody has one.
Yup & on a likely high mileage engine, I wouldn't spend more than what those Summit cams I posted cost...
Very true. Also op, if you haven't already, read up on cam break in and zinc. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cam-break-zinc-110925.html
Where'd you get the "you can't do what I can do" from ? (I'm assuming you interpreted that out of the "you may be good, but you're not that good"?) I never said any such thing. Now, that that's been said, I've never assumed that your abilites were any less than anyone else here. I may have said otherwise, but that was only after you "jumped in the pool" and done to to cool you down a notch. I never said that all Thumper cams were bad either. This is the first I've encountered and it surely wasn't a better choice from what I see in the neighbors Stang. He bought it now knowing what he was picking, not realizing what he was getting. Could be a stall converter may help his idle situation, I don't know, I've no converter guru nor an auto transmission guy. All I know is it will not idle anywhere less than 1000 rpms in gear. I have one (mild stall converter) in my Comet purely because it came with the car and so far it's worked. I hope someday to swap in the Toploader 4 speed hanging in my rafters (waiting to be rebuilt). All that said, that Thumper leaves a lot to be desired, it doesn't even sound all that agressive either. Based on my experience running EFI grinds with carbs, they clearly out shine the so called "carb cams", both in idle quality and performance. Both the B303 and the Z cam sound downright nasty idling at 500 rpms, which is to me the whole point of what the Thumper is supposed to do. And there's nothing given up on the topend either from the wider LSA (and resulting less overlap) Hell the B cam will pull to 7500 rpms with good heads and 1.7 rockers. Just based on what I've seen with this cam, it's a dud, pure and simple. Just another gimmick to sell cams to the unwary.
I think I'll be going with the comp cam's 268 high energy cam kit..... What do you guys think..any one ever use it or something close to it..? http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=200629425356&cmd=VIDESC
I used that cam in a pretty much stock 302 years ago...but had to use these( http://www.compperformancegroupstor...e_Code=CC&Product_Code=4610-16&Category_Code= ) . Just have to keep an eye on your press in rocker studs to make sure they stay put!
