I have parts for both engines around the garage, but if someone didn't have a core for starters, the W is already cheaper at that point. Then you can build a 393w with an inexpensive stroker crank, stock rods, and off the shelf (read cheap) 302 pistons. The tall block is the key. The rod gets too short and pistons too expensive to get those kind of cubes from a 9.2 block. Now on to the heads, here is where the price of the W goes up, however most aluminum heads (especially AFR) can outflow C heads with ease. The 4v heads have plenty of volume, but the flow effieciency is light years behind what modern heads do with small ports. That is why racers used to hack off the entire exhaust port and epoxy redesigned ones onto the head. Then Ford came out with the Nascar heads that are base on the C, but with relocated and smaller ports. They way outflow the 4v AND use smaller ports. Ford found out that if they just positioned the ports better, they didn't need huge volume. To this day Ford run variations of this in Nascar. It's just not a price effective mod for the street. What I am getting at is: In the end, a 393w is argueably no less, however it is substantially lighter, can tolerate more compression on lower octane (aluminum heads), and has a decent CID while using inexpensive rods and pistons. Not to mention a decent rod ratio due to the taller block. The 5.0 revolution didn't dethrone the C, but with only 4 years in production, it makes a big difference. Another thing... If you build an engine, you want to use the best stuff, right? Windsor intakes, good ones, are common new and used. To get the best intake for a C, you have too seek out a Holley 300-13. Been out of production for decades. They run 400-450 when the pop up on eBay now and again. I kick myself for selling mine... but at the time 375 was way more than I paid for it and the guy was begging for it. I can't replace it for that. Think about it, 427 tunnel wedge intakes and Bud Moore plenums are super rare, but they show up on eBay 10 to every 1 300-13 you see for sale. That's saying something about the rarity of some of the good stuff. I sold one of my std bore 70 model C blocks for 400 bux, so you need to consider the core costs seriously. I could get a std 351w block for 350 less just by keeping my eyes open. Dave
I see your point, but where you may be missing the boat is they made the C up until '82 in Oz, and the Aussies are still developing parts for it. CHI makes some awesome heads and intakes for the Cleveland, and they are readily available here in the states. AFD has some too, as does Edelbrock - which aren't that great, but at least they are alloy. That evens out the price and performance head-wise with the Windsor. If you want to run 4V heads then the Blue Thunder is the way to fly. Expensive, but an excellent intake. Now if you are going to go the stroker route and go for big inches, the Windsor may be the way to fly. Good block and can be safely bored farther than a Cleveland. But I still like the Clevos, and besides - other than a Cammer and Boss429 is there a better looking Ford engine?
I am just playin' devils advocate. I run this arguement over and over in my head often... That is why I have a lot of parts for 302s, 351w, and 351c, but not enough of any to do anything great. One week I want to use a 383C, the next a 408W, and then there is always a nice 331. If I could make up my mind, I would have a nice engine built by now. Good discussion, even if it was a hi-jacking!! Dave
Yeah, sorry about the hijack - it's just like the FNG to come in and butcher up a thread. Fun conversation though.
Clevelands Rock! I totally agree it's much easier to just stroke a 302 and not have to fight all the space confinement issues. However, I just like to be different, and I'm definitely with cjjtulsa when it comes to 351W vs. 351C. Clevelands are very hard to beat, especially when it come to the optimum 1970-4v motors I've had. Sure there's far more aftermarket parts available out there for the Windsors, but that's simply because they made those engines for so much longer, therefore there's a ton more of them out there (Volume brings down aftermarket prices, just ask any small block Chevy guy). However, when it comes right down to the standard parts involved in a rebuild, the cost is pretty similar for W's and C's, but the HP yield is defintely not. I've had several of each, and with equal components, the Clevelands have ALWAYS outperformed the Windsor's, both on the dyno, as well as on the street. Sorry, I just had to give my 2 cents. Sincerely, Jim Carroll Cleveland Crusader
damn.. sounds like I am just goin to stick with the 302 and then stroke it later!! and then just use the c4 tranny.. now I need the ford 9"
Did Ford ever put a 9" in a Maverick? I know where a Granada is in a yard with the 9" rear. If it ever stops raining I might just go get it and hoard it with the rest of my junk.
Never in a Mav. Snatch that 9"! Bolts right in. If you are lucky, they won't know the difference between 8" and 9". They took mine out of a Granada, and charged me 8" rate... about 70 bux! Dave
Funny thing is it's an old lady who runs the yard - and she knows her stuff! She doesn't know it's a 9", but still wants $125 for it. And $100 for the discs off the front. I'm thinking about still going for it, but not sure what that rear is worth.
i got my 9" for $80. pulled it right out of a 1980 granada. they wanted to charge me for a rear end out of a truck but i made sure they charged me the car price. it was like $50 less.
Both of those prices seem fair to me. Around here, it's a flat rate for all rear ends no matter what they are or what they are out of.
The yard I got mine from had a computer program where they typed in the part and year/make/model and it spit out a price. When they typed in the year and model, the computer said that it was an 8" and gave no other option. So they didn't even bat an eye. Just like Granada/Mav discs, those rears (9") are worth far more (in the hobby) than what they charge at a yard. The guy that bought mine was putting it under a 32 Ford and wanted the narrow without the work. He was happy to pay what he did. I didn't want to sell it, but he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse.
