Is there any auto tranny better than a c4?

Paul, most people who ask this question can't do a C4 that cheap. Also, people running deep gears on the street will want the overdrive. Earlier in this thread you said that the AOD was junk. You're wrong.

While it is more expensive, many find the benefits worth the expense. Everybody is not you. That's the reality of it.

 

ALWAYS run type F fluid in a C4. My stock converter had a drain plug in it, my ATI converter doesn't have a drain plug so the only way to completely drain it is to take it out.

For any "high performance" c4 application I would recommend Red Line or Royal Purple tranny fluid.....

When I went to build my C4 I went to one of the most recommended tranny builders in the area, I told him that I wanted my tranny to be as strong as he could possibly make it. He told me to bring him the tranny and $250 bucks and it would be as strong as possible. Well, I researched it some more and found out that a $250 dollar C4 will not stand up to the abuse I would be throwing at it ( probably a little over 500 hp.). Yes, I could have gone for the $250 dollar rebuild and been pulling the thing out at the end of every season, but that's not for me. I like a tranny that's gonna stay in there for a while!! Well, I then called just about every place on earth that offers aftermarket C4 parts.......NONE of the reputable C4 shops could do it for $250. I'm not talking about local yocals either, i'm talking about the big boys that do c4's for NMRA and such......I ended up having over $1000 just in parts (not including the $1000 converter or the $500 t-brake)......the labor on my tranny was $400....i've had no problems for the past three seasons running low 6's,spinning most of the way down the track. This year the tranny will see even more abuse, ie. bigger shot of nitrous and it wont' be spinning this year.....If you want your C4 to last under ALOT of power you have to spend the money, if you want to pull it out a couple of times a year go for the $200 rebuild......but, if you're not making much power the $200 rebuild will be fine.....

 

Yup. Paid ~$1,000 on a C4 build for 700 h.p. here too (not including a core charge). 'Not saying it can't be done for less either.

This included parts that won't need to be changed out with a future rebuild also, so the re-rebuild will be much less.

 

Earl, you can drain the converter if it does not have a drain plug. Is done by flushing the entire system of old fluid and installing new. Can be done at home but is a bit on the messy side if you don't have the stuff to do it with. Asked a dealer once on the charges for changing the filter and fluid. It was 100.00 and I said, do you flush it all out? Answer, Oh no we just drain the pan and change the filter and refill. Walked out and got some rubber hose, a container and a case of fluid.

Type F is formulated for the older ford trans, the newer ones rely on computer controlled shifts and grandma wants a nice smooth transition from gear to gear without the neck jerking etc. Same goes for racing glides, Type F in them too. As far as all this discussion on spending 1000's of dollars on tranny's, if you have the bucks go for it, will be good investment for these monster motors. but for us average Joe's, the good low dollar build will suffice.

Love to watch the ones on Sat night heads up racing, purge the NOS system and stand um up on the bumper. Fast as hell, but these guys all have very deep pockets and can afford the right equipt and 45.00 bottle refills several times a night. Over the years have not seen many go long without breaking the trans or engine, no matter what brand or type. That kind of stuff is showtime and bragging rights for a 4.00 trophy, but is great to watch and a blast to drive. Never could figure why the big guns like Force and Johnson don't do it, no consistency for winning rounds in most cases. We have some Jr. dragsters running basic 5hp Briggs engines that are running high six's at 90+ mph in the 1/8th on alcohol and thats it. No way would I stand a chance against them in my doggy 7.30 fairmont. Two most asked questions and answers at the track are: What do I need to do to go faster? Answer: Lots of money! Next is: Do you think the car will run a long time without blowing up? Answer: The question is "not when will it blow but "how bad will it be! Nothing is indistructable when you pound on it long enough.

 

Old Guy; thanks for the help. I guess I will look for the plug in the converter, change the filter and gasket on the pan, and fill 'er up with Type F. The trans shifts fine, and has a shift kit, so it isn't the smoothie. The type F might just make it better. Thanks again,

 

Max,
What you say is true - most people can't build a C-4 like I can - I used to do it for a living. It is also true that most people don't run 5.56 gears or have engines that produce 400+ foot pounds of torque in their street cars.
I did say the AOD was junk - and I could have over-stated my position. The reason it is more expensive to rework is that there is a lot more work to do on it to get it to take the same torque that the C-4 will. It also has a larger opening in the case for the pan - that weakens the case. The case flex can also cause warpage in the valve body just like the C-6 or in the extreme, crack the case (I have seen this on C-6's). Any transmission can be built to handle high torque loads, it is just a lot easier to modify the C-4 than most of the others.
In stock form the C-4 is stronger than the AOD - partly due to the OD parts that are not designed to take abuse. That much is fact. It is less expensive to modify the C-4 than it is to make the AOD take the same torque. That is also a fact. For the budget minded street and stripper the C-4 is a good solid choice. For the all-out racer money isn't a consideration and he should have spare transmissions and engines for repacements if something breaks. The guy who occasionally races his street machine usually drives to the track and then drives his "race" car home. Money is a big consideration.

PaulS

 

Servo swap

If you do up a C4 trans find the "H" servo at a scrapyard for a stronger shift !
It puts more pressure on the band...

Richard Miller

 

Be sure to use the steel band - the cast bands will break with too much pressure - If you get a "Trans-Go" shift kit for "street and strip" it will include all the parts (servo pistons and modulator) to complement the pressure and timing changes made in the valve-body. Its not a "bullet-proof" racing trans but the kit is great for anything "streetable".


PaulS

 

Actually, the larger piston servo's really don't exert that much more apply pressure to the band. It is the volume of fluid that quickens the apply action and more importantly, the release action of the servo. The "R" servo is even a better choice to use. I use a PA billet one in my race cars and still retain the cast band, no problem in 12yrs. Have a few of these running behind 514 engines and still hold up with proper maintenance. These discussions on which is better and what is stronger is closely related to the Ford vs Chevy debate. I wonder what would happen if someone said that Bud tastes better than Coor's. It's the american way to compete and banter over such things. Makes for a not so dull day anyway you look at it. Only thing that irratates me is the people who will argue that they are the best at everything or the product tastes better no matter what. Let's see now, decisions decisions, Bud or Coor's? What the hell, drink em both, after a few of each who really cares.

 

Definitely BUD!


Again, I enjoy reading your posts old guy, they seem to always be thought-out and very educational....thanks.

 

Bud it is!

 

There ya go Paul. That's the explanation I was looking for. While I have built trannies in the past, I do not have the special tools or facilities to do it now. The local guy wants a grand to do a C4 right. I could buy a pretty solid AOD for about $1500 and swap it in, and it would allow me to run gears about one full point lower.

If I were strictly racing, I wouldn't use the AOD.

 

Stick with the C-4.
There is a small block bellhousing C-6. Headers will not clear the bellhousing
on these tranny's.
AOD. I have heard good things about it, except that it is expensive to build up to handle more torque and HP than stock.

Powerglide: race applications only in my opinion.

Seth

 

Just a little FYI......JPT transmissions in MI offers a full roller, all aluminum race C4 for around $3500. It is basically a full race transmission with lightweight aluminum internals and is the pinnacle of performance for the c4 transmissions. So it's kinda like motors, you can take them as far as you want with money being the only limit!

 

You guys must have jinxed me, last night at the track I noticed a hesitation or slippage going into third....called JPT and he reinforced my theory that the high gear clutches need to be replaced....

Looks like the tranny will be coming out soon