my uncle claims ot have a 351 cleveland....

actully easier than a windsor....

exhaust ports point down, instead of out towards towers

spark plugs are pretty tough but windsor's arnt the easiest either....

 

i think i might go with the winsor...just to save myself a headache...lol

 

you must be joking if you plan on headers , have fun

 

My is that A Windsor with stock heads will make less power than a Cleveland, but with after-market heads, I think the Windsor can make about just as good or better. Neither fit well in a Maverick (although it can be and is done), especially if you want to run accessories like power steering or A/C. There will be hood clearance limitations as well, since both motors are taller than the 302.

Personally, I like the idea of a stroked 302 (331/347) in a Maverick better...

 

when can I come up and pick up that Cleveland? I've built 4, would love to have my own

 

I drove my 72 Gran Torino Sport every day for 5 years with it's 351 4v Cobra Jet Cleveland with no problems. I liked it so much that the 351 got stuffed in my Maverick when I junked the Torino. My only complaint with the Torino was 8 miles to the gallon with a 4 speed but that was also a 4,000 pound car.

 

'72 Torinos are cool...

 

The so called oiling problem takes about 5 minutes to fix. That's a non issue in my book.

 

My 12 second street/strip stock 351C in my Maverick never goes over 6000, I shift at 5400. It has stock 2V heads and exhaust manifolds. The shock towers are notched, but didn't "have" to be. I was going windsor all the way until I got this one, now I have 4 clevelands. Yes, aftermarket stuff is more expensive for them, but what do you have to buy? An intake and a good carb. Use the money that you would have spent on aluminum heads for your Windsor and buy a set of cal-tracs and good street/strip tires.

 

I have owned a vehicle with a Cleveland two barrel - they are strong engines - I never said they weren't. I said that the Windsor will out perform them at NORMAL street rpms. Nascar is the reason production was stopped on the Cleveland engines. That is what they were originally built for. At Nascar speeds (8000rpm) the 4bbl heads were too big to get decent milage. (volumetric efficiency was too low) Nascar switched to the two bbl heads because they could run the engines leaner and keep the power up (volumetric efficiency was higher) but they were still not as efficient as other engines.
With a decent cam and intake the stock Windsor will allow rpms well above 6000 rpms. There are any number of cams sold to do this job with stock heads. I have a 351 Windsor with stock heads that makes 350+ hp with stock heads. Who are you kidding? There isn't an American engine made that in stock trim won't turn 5000 rpm. They may not make much power with a stock cam but they will turn the rpm. Put a cam, intake, carb and headers on the engine and they make power all the way to 6200 rpm.

 

It takes about 5 minutes to patch,( i know about the restrictors) A lot longer to fix properly. Requiers externial plumblimg and extensive reworking of the oiling system, These motors will not run extended rpm without the mods. Been there seen and done that. The heads are really the only true advantage anyway so why not just run these heads on the w block? Or better yet save your money and some headaches and put a Blower on a 302 base motor and outrun all the above at a cheaper cost. How fast you want to go ? Just add BOOST.

 

Nascar was the reason for the Clevelands demise in the U.S. ? Who are you kidding? And as for a Windsor truning over 6 grand with stock unported heads, they will under a no load condition, but not under full power-full load. Even Ford said the 302 ran out of breathe at around 4500 with the best cams. You kept making wild assumptions and statements about the Cleveland's shortcomings now you change your tune. Which is it? Are they good street engines or are they 8000 rpm only engines? Put the wrong head/cam/intake combo on anything and it's a poor performer under 3 grand. I've had one 302 that was such. Canfield 1.94 valved heads, B303 roller, 1.7 rockers and topped with a Vic Jr. under 3000 rpms it wouldn't pull either. And as for Nascar boys not running them, you'd better go back and take another look, last time I paid attention to that, they were using Windsor blocks, but revised with Cleveland mains and topped with Cleveland style heads.

 

I wasn't talking about restrictors, a simple external line from front to rear will keep most from suffering oil starvation at the rear.

 

Enginemasters

The Enginemasters was won with a Cleveland headed Windsor (Clevor). CHI aluminum Cleveland style heads, to be exact.

Both engines will make mucho power. 20 years ago Windsor heads were the limitation on power production. Now it's as easy as a set of AFRs. Most folks now like to turn the main journals down, since the 3" journals on the Windsor make for excessive bearing surface speed. But it is not entirely neccessary on a street engine. A streetable 351W should be capable of 500hp. Easy 400hp with a smooth idle. Stroker kits to 427 ci up the ante.

The Clevelands suffer the twin downside of intakes that flow too much for the street and exhausts that don't flow enough for racing. That was solved by sectioning the heads, inserting an aluminum block, and recontouring the exhaust ports. Mid 70s prostock Clevelands were in the 850 hp range with stock block and cast crank. Most of the aftermarket Cleveland heads are redesigned for better flow on the exhaust side and less flow on the intake. A streetable 351C should be capable of 500hp. Again, stroker kits to 427 ci increase the power level.

A stroker 302 (347 is the most common) with aftermarket heads is an easy, compact solution that should make 450 streetable hp. The shortcoming on factory 302/5.0 blocks is they tend to give up when hp gets over 500. They'll live a long time at 400hp.

Remember, in a light Maverick, 400hp will produce a bunch of smiles.

YMMV,
Jim

 

what about the iron eagle blocks, say i go for a 302, and build it to 400-450 hp and i save up for the iron eagle, than switch parts over an put oh say a blower and nos on it, i would imagine the iron eagle blocks can with stand more, am i correct, if so how much more would u say?