it's up to you.. especially if you think you misground the end gaps incorrectly(flush butted gaps are VERY important).. but IMO, you're just wasting money if you replace the others that are already done correctly. And since you're motor will be fresh and needs to be broken in first.. set the rev limiter to about 4,500-5,000 MAX rpm. We can work on upping the spec's a bit if you want(something around 4-6 degrees duration increase and maybe a tad more lift).. but I gotta run out to get parts right now. I'll check back later this afternoon and we can chat more about spec's and potential performance increases. I think that motor will surprise you as it is though.. and you should keep the cam timing more moderate for best results on those heads. Maybe others have some opinions on the matter too.
Okay.. How many miles before the engine is considered broken in? Ive read varying numbers ranging from 300 to 700 miles.. I have no problem with taking it easy until it's good to go.. But the second i get out of the break-in period i'm gonna be having some real fun. Also, with the timing and whatnot, can you give me some tips for setting cam timing and properly tuning the engine? P.S. Are you willing to maybe sell one of those crank bolts?? I just.... I can't find that thing anywhere.....
Break in mileage all depends on the rings and cylinder bore finish. Moly coated rings combined with finer bore finishes can be broken in rather quickly under heavy loads. My preference, especially on a flat tappet cam'd motor, is to run the cam in.. change the oil/filter and inspect VERY thoroughly. I cut my filters open with a special tool to inspect the media itself.. or at least look at the bottom layer in a CLEAN drain pan after it's been given some time to settle and/or pour some through a paper towel/coffee filter to inspect closely with a bright flashlight. Then if everything looks good.. refill the crankcase and run around town lightly at varying rpm/loads while specifically looking for longer hills that you can keep it in a taller gear to increase cylinder pressures(load the motor at lower rpms). That will better help to seat the rings without needless high rpm. Err.. wait.. I just remembered that your cam has been run in already, so you can skip the immediate oil change after running it for a bit(30 minutes or so) as would be typical after cam break in. Personally.. I would still HIGHLY recommend doing a quick oil drain and close inspection though since you're never guaranteed that a cam is perfectly happy after break in time. Regardless of surface finishes that supposedly allow extremely quick break in periods.. I usually still run them easier for the first 200 miles or so to get everything meshed up nicely. The adjust the rev limiter within reason and go have some fun to see what you ended up with. As for tuning.. it's pretty straightforward stuff and I would suggest Holley's tech pages to familiarize yourself with proper carb tuning.. and we can link you to some advance/timing curve tuning topics as well. That stuff gets pretty lengthy to really dif into details here. PS. make sure to use a good high zinc oil like valvoline racing(VR1) and/or break in additive.. or a dedicated break in oil with the package already implemented into the mix. Plus.. you'll want to be sure to drain the old gas out before trying to break in that motor since it's likely gone stale by now. PPS. I'm assuming the last question was aimed at baddad so you might want to quote him while asking it so he see's it. Otherwise by the time you pay for him to ship it to you.. you'll likely be better off just getting it locally if possible.
oh.. almost forgot about your cam spec's. A slightly hotter cam would probably be something along these lines. 216/222 I/E @.050 .480/.510(with 1.6 rocker) 110 LSA installed at around a 106 centerline with that advance ground into the cam to allow "straight up" installation. A cam spec'd like that would start making heavier steam around 1,800 rpm and EASILY rev past 6,200 with matching parts. You could probably even shift it at 6,500 to help improve rpm recovery during shifts.
Send me your address and I'll mail one to you. Any crank bolt off any Ford pushrod V8 will work here, they're all the same bolt.
thought I'd post real quick to say that I just found 3 of them in an "old Ford parts" box up in the rafters. I'm surprised my roof hasn't caved in with all the extra weight I've got stashed up there when the heavy snow hits us. lol I'll be sending him some parts anyways.. so, save your time and money. See?.. I'm not all that bad after all.
Okay, well i just got off the phone with cam research and he says he'll make the cam with those specs, and give me new springs with the stock installed height (which we agreed was around 1.7"... right?) although he did say "That's a pretty big cam but... I'll make it for you.. The springs may be a little more expensive though because theyre smaller and stronger... So I'll keep you updated on that" But other than that i dont believe theres any other cost besides shipping.. Although he didnt seem too happy to be on the phone with me. He originally told me he'd call me back and then never did. lol. but i understand. Busy schedule. Anyways, the cam should be on it's way in a few days. Hopefully it works out okay in the engine. He worried me when he said that a little.
If you mean those last specs Groberts posted, if he think's that's a pretty big cam, I'd hate to know what he calls a small cam. I'd call it "middle of the road" Not too hot, not too small.
LOL.. you sure got that right! The cam in my boat is bigger than that thing and comments like that make me wonder what the hell they're grinding over there these days. That thing is the equivelant to about a 260-270 degree cam from many manufacturers and they're obviously screwing with your head at this point. I won't even go into detail about what he told me about those 1.85 installed height springs seat loads if we decided to run them at 1.7 inches. Something screwy like.. "they won't change much because of the design spec's we use for them". If that's the case.. they better quit designing springs then too because they're no better at that than spec'ing their cams either. This is what it sounds like to me at this point. They've lost some money on this order and now he's making comments like that simply to pave the way for some over charging of the next set of springs to help offset their losses now. I know this to be fact because smaller springs are generally always cheaper.. not more expensive. It's not like he's going to be sending you Nextek's or something exotic here. This has been nothing but trouble from day one with those guys and I feel kinda badly about all that's gone on here. I'm not sure what the hell happened to their guy who spec'd all my stuff in the past.. but here's what I would be doing at this point. Ask them.. very nicely of course.. to grind the cam.. and "never mind on the springs at this point since I already have my own now". Ask them to offset the cost that you originally paid for the springs to cover the shipping of the new cam back to your dorrstep. They should be OK with that as it will cost them less in shipping than it would to replace.. or refund.. the springs they already charged you for. I have springs I will GIVE you to help save some face and offset the costs you've already incurred from these.. !!#$%^%^. What a bunch of crap to have to deal with here.. and I'd wash my hands of them as quickly as you can with a smile and flick of the finger for all their good service as you head out their door. I have 2 sets of Z28 springs in 1.25 inch diameter(one is barely even used.. probably well less than 10,000 miles on them).. and at least 1 set of the more common 1.43 inchers with matching retainers for either set you choose. Now.. before going too far on what you'd rather have sent to you.. at this point I want to get into greater detail about the heads you're using here(what specifically has been done to them).. and the actual size/type of the guides that were installed. Then we can get everything spec'd once and for all and get on with it already. PS. you can just call me this evening and we can work out all the details. If you prefer.. I can even call the machine shop to get more details on your parts so you don't have to play middle man again. At this point it's better to avoid losses in translation and we can get you what you need so it can be finished up.
That comment is actually what worried me too. I hope they just dont send back my original cam with a new cam card saying it's what i ordered. As for the springs, ill see if they can just not send the new springs, use some of the money for the shipping and then refund the rest to me? Because he was asking me for the stock installed height for the 289 heads.... So these comments are starting to worry me just a little.. I guess i won't be using them again any time soon for anything, but at least i got a decent cam when im done (Hopefully) So i guess i'll just call and ask for him to not send me springs, (unless they don't require extra money) and move on to just waiting for the valves to come in from ebay, and for your shipment of the locks, retainers, and rockers (and if necessary, springs?) and then all i need to get is a quote from you telling me how much i owe you for shipping. But if you are willing and able to call them, then maybe that would help me get a better cam that would actually be useful, I just gave them the specs and moved on. they may need more info i cant explain..
It's pretty easy to check the lift specs on the cam they send you. You can do this with a set of dial calipers by measuring the base circle, then the lobe peak and subtracting the base numbers from the peak, then multipying by 1.6 (the rocker ratio)
Don't sweat it so much, bud. The fact that they're even letting you send a custom ground cam back in the first place should obviously tell you right off the bat that they're not outright crooks. They are quite concerned about their reputation and are stepping up to make things right based on OUR word that you did in fact mention a future upgrade of the stall converter and gear ratios. He did say that he didn't have any notes pertaining to any mention of that future upgrade but gave you the benefit of the doubt and outright said that they don't want you to end up with a cam from them that you're not happy with. I've only had 2 other cam manufacturers do custom cams for me(Comp and Crower).. and I highly doubt that either one would have stepped up the way these guys have in this situation. I know it seems like a long way around to get there.. but they'll get you back on track shortly here. I would also bet big cash that they;re not going to just repackage the same cam and send it back to you. At this point that would just add insult to injury and leave them liable for full shipping reimbursements and future headaches. As baddad mentions above.. it's fairly easy to check and the cam should be degreed in anyways..if you're doing this motor up proper(and they full well know that most buying custom cams will degree them in). At this point I'm thinking the guy you've been dealing with is just a rookie.. or he's trying to recoup some costs for everything that's gone on here based on P'ing his boss off about the oversight. I'll call tomorrow morning when they opne to check on the status and make sure there's no further misunderstandings here. Just so you're aware..I'll be getting busier every day as my contracting season begins to start getting heavier.. and we really need to talk on the phone to get these details ironed out. Like I mentioned earlier.. I'm willing to help you get through some of the logistics and detail work here.. but it would be best if I was able to deal directly with your machinist for the remainder of your headwork to make sure everything works as the package should. And just to put your mind at ease here, I would never authorize any work to be done.. I just need spec's for the parts being used here and eliminating the middle man will improve efficiency to finalize things for you, is all. Also just noticed that you are buying valves from ebay now?(which ones?) That's surely fine with me either way(especially since I'm just giving them to you anyways) as mine would need to be freshened up.. and as I mentioned earlier.. it may be best to just get the sizes required in the first place and be done with it all in one shot. But as I also mentioned earlier.. I would still highly recommend backcutting at LEAST the intakes to improve low lift flow(maximizes scavenging effects). Most builders will typically use 30 degree backcuts.. but I and many big name engine builders prefer 32-35 degree cuts since they aren't as detrimental to high lift flow as the typical 30 degree cut is(basically it negatively affects how the cone forms around the valve at higher lifts, slight as it may be at these particular lift ranges). As usual.. there's always some tradoff and the use of a steeper backcut helps balance out such tradeoffs a bit better, is all. Your call of course.. and most machinists will do whatever you tell them to either way.
The comment you made about Crower not stepping up like this supposedly competent cam manufacture is highly ambiguous................the last cam I got that went in the 408 was found to be ground wrong by my machinist Bob Gromm.........................they paid for sending the bad cam back and overnight airfreighted my "NEW" cam back Bob within 24 hours.........at no cost to me and I'm sure Bruce Crower and his employees would do the same for a new customer. It just sounds like this company really doesn't have a clue....................IMHO
