I've come to notice that last part for myself. I'll see if it will cost extra to completely do those heads because as on now they're just charging me $42 to do anything to the head so ill see if its possible they can do both. In the mean time ill look for some heads on Craigslist or something and if I can't find any then ill just work with the heads I got.
Krazycomet had about the best idea as for heads. Even the stock roller springs on E7 heads would be an improvement over what you have now. Just make sure if you do buy a set of E7's, make sure they came off an engine that had a roller cam to get the stiffer springs. Not all E7 headed 5.0's came with roller cams. Those that did not were the 87-91 pickups and vans. Another plus with E7's is most came with PC valve stem seals, which makes it easier to upgrade the springs as the valve guide bosses are already cut down to fit double valve spring sets. Now as for groberts idea that you're leaving yourself open to losing a valve from valve float, sure that's always a possiblity, but one that's pretty remote. You can just as easily lose one with stiffer springs too, if you over rev it. Stiffer springs are also harder on the cam lobes too, seeing as you're going to run a flat tappet cam. You've got a better chance of wiping a cam lobe with today's oils and stiff springs than you do of losing a valve from float. At least you can limit the chances of valve float with your foot. Now as for changing the cam bearings yourself, DON'T ! Spend the money and let the machineshop perform that operation. They have the tools and the experience to do that the right way. Not only do the bearings have to be installed in the proper order (they're not all the same inner diameter, they taper from front to back in the block) but the oil passage holes need to be lined up with the holes in the block.
So far I've found a set of rebuilt E7's for $350. Is that a decent price? And if I was to get these E7's what kind of lift and cam should I get and also, what else will I need to do to them? Also found GT40 heads for $295. Which should I choose?
As long as they aren't trashed and are true GT40, those are what I'd recommend(you don't want GT40P, that have the odd spark plug angle)... They are at least one rung up the peformance ladder from the E7 and are getting into "decent head territory"... Basically they are a more modern version of the '69-'71 351 Windsor heads we used to look for back in the old days...
Okay, well i found a set of cast iron GT-40 (3 Bars) heads on craigslist that have "low miles" for $250. I'm not sure what I'd have to do to them though once i got them. In the long run would it be better to just go with those, get them boiled, and then put them on? (Or whatever should need to be done to the Gt40 heads before i put them on?) If i do get them should i get them ported? People seem to say that it helps quite a bit. Or should i just have the work done on mine?
As with any used part you purchase from someone you don't know it is always a safe bet (and cheaper in the long run) to have the heads checked by a shop that you know and trust.......................disassemble the heads, have them hot tank'd............surface checked for flatness, mag'd for any possible cracks, have the valves checked, seats checked, have the springs checked to see if they will stand up to whatever cam you decide to put in the motor (really, used springs I would just put in the trash can.........unless you have them checked for open and closed pressure..........and know the installed height that the cam manufacturer has set in the specs of the cam) and have new seals and keepers put it. Keepers are very inexpensive and are the only thing holding your valve from dropping into the cylinder....................which could ruin your day/month or year. I am not sure how much you have worked on motors before, but if your answer is not much........................I would suggest buying one of the many books and building a SBF...................and read it from cover to cover at least a couple of times.............highlighting in some color things that just jump out at you........................................usually these books will go through a build of a motor(s) which could help or at least point you in a direction. Also, when you first start any motor project you need to start with a budget, sometimes it's hard to follow the budget but at least you have one....IMHO
I agree with the budget thing completely. When i first started i set a budget of like $800 and so far it looks like i might end up going over, but as long as the engine holds together i suppose it's not quite a bit deal. And ive only rebuilt a couple engines in the past with my dad. maybe 5 or 6. But only 1 or 2 were Fords. That's the only problem. We used to work in a Restoration shop and all they did were Chevy's. So I'm not entirely sure how different they truly are, but I'm working on it, and have several books already. (If it already wasn't clear, i'm only 17, so there's definitely plenty of things my dad never got a chance to explain to me and even more things that i have yet to learn. But thats why I'm here. I want as much advice as i can get) Plus, a lot of the tools we had got lost, and i have to take things to the machine shop that i used to be able to do ourselves. (Like cam bearings, press fit wrist pins, ridge reaming etc.) But I suppose I'll take the heads to a machine shop and have them do whatever they can to make sure the heads are in good enough condition to run. Plus see what else it possible. Just so i have a quick list: 1) buy heads and take to machine shop 2) magnuflux the heads and boil them to ensure no cracks etc. 3) check valve seats and everything to do with the springs to ensure they're in good condition. 4) try to buy new springs or test the springs for the correct lbs load 5) maybe have the heads milled if necessary to keep combustion chamber size relatively small (?) 6) once proven to be in good condition and rebuilt and whatnot, bolt them on and find the best cam i can find for the specs of the engine. I have one question though.. If the heads were for a roller cam and lifters, then would putting a hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters in its place mess something up or wipe a lobe off?
scrap your heads.. or offer them to the meachine shop if they'll take them towards a $25 work credit or something. Although many won't even touch those old heads any more. Regardless of advertised mileage(people can be unscrupulous when it comes to taking your money).. ANY used heads will need to be inspected to avoid major issues or potential for engine damage. In my experience.. this is why it's usually better to see them disassembled. And I'll politely warn you once more.. DO NOT RUN STOCK SPRINGS ON ANY PERFORMANCE CAM! Regardless of what ANYONE on a forum tells you.. have the machine shop test the old springs and compare them to what the cam mfgr recommends(also check them for coil bind). You'll be quickly surprised at how poor the stockers are(60-80lbs closed/maybe.. 200 open) and how quickly they can bind. Especially used springs which can easily drop 20% below thier new spec. Hell.. many of the aftermarket springs will lose 10% in a short time and should never be underspec'd for the intended cam application... which is exactly why premium alloy/polished springs cost big bucks these days because they hold to their rate much longer. As for the cam choice. A smaller cam with appropriately matched parts will almost always be much funner and faster from point A to B due to more average power under the curve than an overcammed "cool sounding" motorwill be. But sadly.. many teenager's and first time "more is better" engine builders sometimes need to find these things out the hard way for these first hand lessons to really sink in all the way. No disrespect intended since we've all been there at least once or twice. Just keep in mind that those heads in unported form(btw.. those GT40's are quite a bit better with larger ports and valves than the E7's).. will never take advabnateg of the extra flow potential of that TF2 cam you mentioned earlier. And you will cut out the bottom end of the rev range too will give you less usable power under the curve in the long run. If you want a cam with a bit more lope.. shoot for something in the 210-220 range that has slight bit more lobe seperation than the cookie cutter alphabet cams put out by Ford(crane cams grinds). A tighter LSA cam will give you more lope at idle while also helping intake flow through improved exhaust scavenging on any of those heads you're looking at using. Many who don't fully understand the effects of scavenging(it's like adding a 5th cycle on a 4 cycle engine) will downplay the effect on a muffled street motor. If it didn't exist to the extent that it does.. we'd all be running shorty headers with tons of clearance. lol And while it(scavenging from full muffled exhausts) is certainly diminished somewhat.. all the great engine builders are fully aware of its effects and always use it to their advantage when spec'ing the cam to the heads strength/weakeness. Which is the main reason that a custom grind from Cam Research is so good because they have been designed around your particular setups strength/weakness. To fully understand what I'm saying here.. it's best to call them and get more in-depth info as to the requirements of your particular setup. You'll be surprised at how far thier spec's will be from the off-shelf stuff which is intended to be a "one size fits all" design. Good luck with it. PS. unless you know the exact condition and have receipts from the machine work on those used heads?.. I'd look at a rebuilt set for slightly more cash. They can also setup the rec'd springs while they're being rebuilt and help cut the cost even more from having to trash the stockers and r&r them for the new ones when you upgrade.
I'll definitely give them a call and take the cookie-cutter cam back. (It's already been shipped back) so Then I'll see what else the budget allows for heads. Ive been trying to find some rebuilt heads and the only ones i was able to find were $700. What he did to it sounds great, but im not sure if it's just too much for what my engine needs. I'll talk with the machine shop and see what they think. If they can rebuild the heads that will be $250 for cheaper then i will go with that. Sound good? Overall though, GT40 heads will be a *major* improvement right? EDIT: I've found this. Those GT40 heads, do any of you think theyre worth the price? Looks like i may need studs, but they come with rockers and looks like theyve been completely done. Do you think these will end up being cheaper in the long run than having the $250 ones rebuilt?
do you have a local machine shop?.. or will you have to have them shipped to you(more money)? $700 is too much for those heads(heck.. a little more than $900 will get you aluminum that blow them away!) and you may be better off buying used and going through them to freshen them up. Who knows?.. maybe you could talk that seller down and end up with a decent set that only needs a few things done to freshen them up. It happens on ocassion. Unfortunately.. it sometimes goes the other direction too. And you can never have "too much" with any of those tiny little(sub-150cc ports) factory heads. And if he smoothed out the exhaust ports on them.. that would be a bonus too. Yes.. GT40's would be a world better than what you had. Even with taller pistons and closer to 0 deck.. you'll still want to mill them down at least .020 though. Just remember that the bigger the cam is.. the more compression you'll need. I run premium fuel on my 10.5-1 compression 302(.060 over) with 289 hi-po heads and a mild'ish(225 degrees @ .050/109LSA) solid flat custom cam from cam research. Proper tuning is key.. and for most average tuners.. closer to 10-1 would be closer to max I'd recommend on iron heads.
I have several machine shops nearby that take about 10 minutes to drive to so i got lucky with that, but i only have one that i really trust well. And as for the heads for 250 i might be able to talk them down to maybe 200 and then go to the machine shop and have them redone for less than 250. If that works then at least i could call cam research and know exactly what i need. And also, maybe all this engine rebuilding will fix the timing issue and i can kill two birds with one stone. Plus i can get headers for them and a new exhaust system, and then maybe i have an engine close to 300 horse under the hood with a sweet sound.
Ok, you sounded a lot older than 17. I was lucky enough to have a dad who was a mechanic and grandfather who was an automotive machinist..................I had my first car at 15 and my Dad and I rebuilt the motor and transmission together........although I did much of the hands on work. I finally blew that motor and was lucky enough to find a very cheap 54 Corvette 6cyld.....................and from there I did mostly my own work with my Dad and Grandfather looking over my shoulder. I learned from a lot of my mistakes and friends.......................and still make a few every now and then. So, if you were my son this is what I'd say; "Just remember that the motor is only an "Air Pump"........the more air you put in the more air you need to get out..............now with that said, one rule I've always gone by (and I've been drag racing cars for over 35 years and never blown a motor up.....and I have pushed them very hard) is that the short block is the foundation for building any motor........................the cam, intake, and heads (and as Gary mentioned Exhaust) can always come later or when you have money to spend. On a SBF the single biggest boost in HP on a carburetor'd motor are the heads, and on a SBF this is even more so than a Chevy/Dodge....ext. Build the best possible bullet proof short block you can afford and add onto that..................so the best of all worlds you would have a very strong block with 4 bolt mains, a steel crank, H-beam (or better) rods and forged pistons(I know a lot of people don't think running forged pistons on the street are worth it and are noisy..................all I can say to that is So that kind of budget is a little out of your sight now, but.............you can have the block (and you can do this yourself) preped/blueprinted. You can use a die grinder (you can buy a cheap one at HarborFrieght) and grind the valley smooth, radius the return oil holes....do the same with main web area and radius the oil passage going to the oil pump (in the block) and the timing chain area..................and after you've done that get some Gyptal and use a brush to paint the lifter galley, main web area and timing area with the Gyptal. I have included a picture (sorry it's not a Ford). Then have the block's line bore check'd.....line hone if necessary. Have the deck height checked and mill if necessary depending on what type of pistons you need, and when they bore the motor have it done with a deck plate and make sure the main caps are on and torqued to spec. You can yourself grind the flash line off the sides of the rods and polish them, have them sized on both ends to bring them back to specs and put ARP rod bolts in. You could have them shop peened if the shop actually has the capability.................. So, the heads are now the only real issue and I think you would be further ahead to by the GT40's and have them checked out and at least get springs to go with whatever cam you want. Headers are another issue, but you can always put headers on when you can afford it.............and just use the stock system until then.............IMHO
yep.. sounds like you're on a much better path to reliable power now. I've never even driven my Comet yet(just got it late last year) and have only driven in a few "faster motored versions" of these particular cars through the years.. but my guess is that a solid 280 horse motor will do quite well in such a light little car. If you pay attention to the details(more compression is always good too) and choose your parts wisely?.. 300+ horse is a breeze. Plus.. you'll still have gobs of torque down low to make the motor feel larger than it really is. Just remember that handling is less than stellar on these old unibody cars and that.. "speed kills".. "know when to go"(and "where").. and be safe with it. Good luck to ya.
My dad was a huge drag racer as well, and he was probably the best mechanic i'd ever met. He taught me a lot, and his stories were always amazing to me (He used to race only SBF) in his mustangs and actually sold his fully optioned 70' Mach 1 for $2K to put a down payment on the house. Hearing that story always made me frustrated. But overall he did teach me a lot, and we used to work in his restoration shop together. I learned a lot which is probably why i dont sound 17, but there is so much more for me to learn and that will all come in time. I appreciate you guys helping me out though. All the advice was taken and hopefully this will save me from blowing up the engine in the first 20 miles. Ill talk to the machine shop tomorrow and get the price for refreshing the cylinder heads and call that guy with the GT40 heads to see if i can get them cheaper. Sounds like I'll be doing okay with what i have then: 10.1:1 compression, GT40 heads milled .020 and refreshed, mildish custom cam, new pistons, turned over crank, .040 over block, deck height of close to or at 0, and then to top it off a dual plane Weiand stealth and a Holley 750 street avenger carb. Anything im missing? Think i can beat my friends 350cid '72 camaro yet?
