I think he can do both a spacer (phenolic) and a larger aircleaner element. There's no reason not to. There's every reason to get the carb off the intake pad. As for Scoop's car, he's got that fuggly distributor :evilsmile that causes more clearance issues than the hood ever will. He would have to have room behind the carb to use an offset aircleaner (like the Chevy crowd uses for the same reason) to clear the HEI unit. I offset my 3x2 aircleaner to clear the firewall by turning it backwards via a new base. Even then (moving it forward, toward the hoodline) I could still fit 1/2" spacers under the three carbs and use the Factory 3x2 oval cleaner with the stock height element. (but then this is on a Comet hood which I think has more room) In short, there are more than one way to "skin a cat"
Not sure of your theory there. You will only draw "X" amount of air thru the carb/intake/heads. A bigger filter, like you propose, will not make a noticeable difference unless you have a very restricted air filter to begin with. If you are a K&N fan, go to their web site. They have a calculator to figure sq in needed for a specific ci/rpm combination. Remember, an engine is only an air pump, it can only do so much. They also discuss diameter vs height and their effects. You want the best air filter on the market, look into R2C filters. They are a dry, reusable filter. Much better than the K&N deal. If you are interested, I can post links to engine builders in the dirt late model arena that will not stand behind a K&N filtered engine. Most have gone to the R2C or as a cheaper alternative a common Wix filter. You start turning 700+HP, 364" engines 9200 RPM for 30 to 50 laps on dirt, you learn filters and induction systems. You do what it takes to keep these alive as long as possible. SPark
Whatcha talkin' bout, Willis!!! Honestly, I was not aware of how BIG that thing was, but it will minimize the clutter under my hood, which is my biggest concern. I want to lose as many wires and hoses as possible. (so I can add wires and hoses for the nitrous kit...) If I had known it was so big I would have to spend another $300 on a completely different clean air intake system, I wouldn't have bought that "fuggly" thing.
I run a 1/2" 4-hole phenolic spacer just for heat isolation. With my high-rise dual plane intake, the 1" spacer will cause hood clearance problems, but with the 1/2", it just clears with no room to spare.
I agree with Scooper. It's definately interesting stuff. While we're getting deeper into airflow science here.. taller filters can straighten out airflow paths.. which I would assume is what Bryant was seeing for further gain after a certain size filter had already satisfied a particular engines airflow needs. Personally I don't like drop base filter setups.. or flat tops either for that matter.. but sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do to squeeze one into the compartment for protecting the overall investment in the long run vs making all out power for a much shorter amount of time. And as far as those calculators are concerned.. they're only baselines from which to work from for minimum requirements, IMO. I've also done my fair share of filter swaps and seen many flow tests between various filtration medias/housing designs through the years too(some with gains very similar to Bryant's as well).. and not all is as it seems from just a statically calculated airflow standpoint. When it comes to air cleaner optimization.. two things remain constant from a physics and design standpoint. Air doesn't like to be bent around turns and sharp corners(which generally makes larger air cleaners better because they reduce the radii to some small degree).. and filtration media does in fact create a pressure drop across its surface(from one side to the other).. however slight it may be with some designs. I've had more than a few manufacturers tell me that it won't make any discernible difference to remove the internal and/or external reinforcement mesh.. but they would be dead wrong.. and have been proven as such through many flow tests.. if you're one of those 1 pecenters who pays attention the the little details. Even the type/size/thickness of the pleats themselves and reinforcement mesh used to help the filter retain its shape and avoid excessive crush can have a substantial impact on efficiency for any given media size. Case in point would be the element used for the K&N flow control setup. Short of the R2C stuff.. it's the best flowing media available because it doesn't even have the reinforcement mesh included in its design. Which inevitably makes it floppy as hell and a bit tougher to seat properly but it does flow better. I know many others who have also used it and it does work well for those with height clearance issues that are able to fit the larger 16 inch diameter into their bay. I've also used the R2C stuff which about as good as it gets despite the associated price tag. Most of us know by now that when it comes to engines and airflow.. what looks good on paper doesn't always perform as expected. Especially when that paper is used for advertising/money making purposes. And sometimes what shouldn't even work at all.. surprises us in ways we can never fully understand as it somehow fixes issues we never really knew we had in the first place. Which IMO, only makes life more interesting and fuels the need for even more knowledge as a result.
I agree totally with your statements. We spent dyno time with a Yates headed, 364", 14.5:1, gas burning, roller cam, shaft rocker, dry sump engine on a Wix, K&N and the R2C. Dropped Base, 14x4 filters with a domed lid. A flat base air cleaner cost HP, the K&N cost HP and won't seal as well to the filter housing, the Wix did a decent job but the R2C killed them all. For those that think there is nothing to gain, on the above engine we picked up 24 HP in one day messing with spacers and filters. That's 24 HP on a 635HP engine with the best stuff available at the time. There are gains to be had, if you are willing to spend the time (and money) to find them. We also dyno tested an IMCA dirt late model spec engine (basically a Brodix Track 1 head with the same internal components as the open Yates motor) and gained more. In fact they eventually enacted a spacer rule to negate what we had found. A simple 4 hole 1" spacer was worth 15HP. Some as much as 25. That's huge on a spec engine putting out 535HP. If you run in a dusty environment at all, spend the money for an R2C filter. Put it in a sure seal housing and play with some spacers. That's a dirt late model with the above engine. We also ran them on our mods. SPark
i do agree that the taller filters gain was more from the increased space above the carb to the lid allowing for the air to have an easier turn into the carb. the problem with the maverick/comet is their is not much room to start with in these engine compartments. im curious to see if the low profile hat scooper has will be able to allow the air to enter the carb as efficiently as a 14" air cleaner. i suspect that with a decent ram air set up any loss would be over come once enough ram air is in effect. these are hard things to test but i know scooper is up to it, and this would be a good time for the return of the hat cam!
One very easy way to avoid needing such a tall filter to improve airflow paths.. is to get rid of that POS choke tower. Then install a stubstack to smooth out the entries sharp edges and go have some fun with whatever maximally sized air cleaner you can squeeze in there. This is one of those key area's where form should ALWAYS follow function.. not the other way around just for the sake of looking cool. Unless of course you live in colder climates(where I still chop them off anyways!) and don't have time to properly warm up your motor(like you should be doing anyways) and necessitates reliance on chokes. But once you initially warm the motor up real good.. you'll usually rely on it very little.. or to a much lessor degree.. after that initial warm up anyways.
Back to the OP's question. I think he may gain a little drivability by adding the 3/8 base gasket used on 1984 F250 4x4, 460 powered trucks. It will insulate the carb and it does help fuel quality by heat isolation. It's a 4 hole to keep throttle response up. I really don't see much of a HP gain as long as the stock heads stay in place. They will restrict anything else he wants to do at this point. Go to your local NAPA store and use the truck reference to get the part. It will be a gray, paper looking gasket that is 3/8" thick and has plastic sleeves for the studs to go thru to keep from over tightening the carb and crushing the gasket. SPark
Look at the pics of my car, I've hidden the Duraspark wiring in plain sight. Ditto for the alternator and oil pressure line. Just for the OP's info, the oval cleaner cleared the hood, until I added the 1" spacers under the carbs, to push it up into the airstream in the front of the Boss Nine scoop. That's a 3" tall oval K&N in the factory aluminum aircleaner, the intake is a repop of the one's Ford sold in the late 60's, it's not a low rise intake. Before I added the 1" spacers, the 1/2" Phenolic spacers were under there along with the 3" K&N.
I think it was HP tv that tested all kinds of carb. spacers w/ dual plane intakes on the same mtr.They made the most HP when they ground out the divider on the intake and ran a phenolic 1 in open spacer,all done on the dynnly lost a little bit in the lower revs but really woke up above 2500.
